8.12 Dr. Samir Parikh & Divya Jain: Why Mental Fitness Wins the Game

What sets a legend apart from just another player? The answer lies in the mind.

In this episode, Tara dives deep into the psychology of peak performance with Dr. Samir Parikh and Divya Jain, authors of The Champion Within. What really makes someone a champion, not just in sport, but in life and work?

From game-day rituals and comeback stories to dealing with pressure, anticipatory anxiety, and failure, this episode is packed with stories and science behind how mental strength is built.

You’ll hear about the famous Wimbledon choke that turned into a redemption arc, what athletes do between points to reset their focus, and how a sense of fun can literally shift your performance. 

Whether you're building a startup, sitting for exams, or chasing your next big win, this episode will make you rethink what it means to show up with grit and joy.

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‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

Tara Khandelwal: 1:00

Tara, hi everyone. This is Books and Beyond, where you get to hear straight from the authors who make us laugh, cry, think and cheer. I'm your host. Tara kandiral, I'm so excited for today's episode because we get to dive into the champion mindset. But before we do that, take a second to hit that follow button on Spotify Apple podcast or wherever you're listening, and don't forget to follow us on Instagram for updates about books and beyond. So let's get into it. What does it take to really be a sportsman, great passion, a bit of madness. I've always been really fascinated by what it takes for someone to become a true champion. And 2025 has already been a year of comebacks. RCB finally won the IPL Totten and Hotspur lifted the Europa League trophy after 17 years. Nico hirkenberg got his first Formula One podium after 15 years of trying. And these stories sound like fairy tales, but they're really about patience and relentless dedication. And as somebody who has studied psychology, and my cousin is actually India number one in squash, and I've seen her sort of go through her sports psychology journey, I was very, very excited to interview today's guest, Dr Sameer Parekh, Chairperson of the 40s National Mental Health Program, and Divya Jain, sports psychologist, head of psychological services at Fortis. And they're here to talk about their new book, The champion within which honestly reads like a manual for not just building a great athlete, but a great mindset. So let's get into the nitty gritties of sports psychology. Hi. Dr Parekh, hi. Divya, hi. So in the champion within, you break down every aspect of what it takes to becoming a champion, and you do it in very relatable ways. For example, you explain how having a vision for success is like driving a car, keeping your eyes on the road, but never losing sight of where you're going. And it's clear that you wanted this book to reach a lot beyond just athletes. So what did you have in mind when you wrote this book, and Who's your ideal leader? The

Samir Parikh: 3:04

whole idea is that one needs to look at when to apply these principles which help athletes, elite athlete at the highest level, and how they can be used for all of us, it's not that our struggles are also not there. It's not that a exam going student doesn't go through their struggle, an employee who has targets not go through struggles. It's not some of us who do not have our motivations going up and down the pressures and rigors of life multiple vectors acting on us. And all of us in our journey have our ups and downs. And when you compare this to the life of an elite athlete like you were just mentioning that the pressure is so many times different. The shelf life of how many years you have to be able to perform at a certain level is much lesser than an average individual longitudinal axis of working as all of us do, and the kind of pressures that are there notches of the self, but competitive aspect as well as the observe and so many people following you and critiquing you both. So when you look at that aspect, the idea was that if an athlete, year after year, game after game, tournament after tournament, can try and up their game, maintain their performance. How about all of us also learn from some of the things that people like to be almost a sports psychologist when they work with athletes. If we use the same things, we can actually manage our own performances and successes a bit better.

Divya Jain: 4:46

Yeah, when we talk about some of these mental skills, sometimes it feels like it's easier said than done. But when we're able to use some of these metaphors from the field of sport, when they're actually able to see some of these things play out, see people actually be able to cope with that kind of pressure, bounce back in that way, it actually it becomes quite inspiring. It becomes something that actually can be done. People's belief in it tends to increase, and they're actually able to see how to go about it. So for me, it was also just about but bringing about that vocabulary and that relatability to people around

Tara Khandelwal: 5:23

maybe we can speak a little bit about how both of you got into sports psychology, because I think it's a very interesting field. And probably, you know, it's more and more up and coming in India, with even people, more people wanting to become sportsmen. And I think more credence also been given to the mental aspect of the sport, because I find that the most satisfying. And then that is often the maker makeup. Break, because in sports, you can, you know, attain the same level of physical expertise. But that make or break is that mindset.

Samir Parikh: 5:55

So I am now in the field for just under three decades, and I've been working as a psychiatrist for a while. So over the years, athletes have reached out, largely in the initial years, it was cricket. We worked with some other fields as well, until 2024 when both Divya and I went to the Paris Olympics as the mental health coaches. Now, see my take on this is that first, I don't believe that the integration that should happen of mental health and mental conditioning is happening in the right manner. I think it's too intermittent. It's sometimes post injury, sometimes it's after the setback, sometimes it's before a tournament. Now, compare this to physical training. Compare this to your coaching. Compare this to nutrition. Now that's not happening intermittent. That's not happening just before a tournament. You start at the earliest grassroot young athletes, kilo India, state level, district level. It is at this level that we need to integrate the mental conditioning component, which I don't think is happening. And if we don't start from there, then suddenly, out of the blue, you just add somebody a few weeks or months before your tournament is not going to give you the the results. Yes, more people are talking about it. That does not mean more people are utilizing it, and we will need to understand this now, whether the reluctance comes from the understanding of the athletes at times, whether it is coming because of the understanding of their coaches. They're very mature. There are multiple aspects here, but I do feel that what happened right now, as in the Paris Olympics, I think it's a very, very important step in the right direction. I think Indian Olympic Association took up clinically and ethically. The Right Thing that in the medical team, the first time had mental health experts, me as a psychiatrist, as a sports psychologist, the fact that we were able to recognize that medical team will have a mental health experts, I think that that is a very important step, and one needs to hats off to everybody who was in the decision making here, because this is going to shape the future that you will now not have big tournaments with our mental health experts, and gradually you'll have more acceptance in younger players and at the Academy level, and I'm hoping that people will integrate this a lot better. I remember

Divya Jain: 8:31

when I got into the field of psychology, the number of people who would come in at that time, the kind of acceptance that was there at that time, versus how it has been 15 years for me now, close to 30 years for Dr pare. And I see a similar kind of trend hopefully following for sports psychology as well. It's, it's not there yet. You know, people talk so much about the mental aspect of the game, so if you hear, if you watch any match, you hear any commentary, you'll realize that most of it is mental. You hear any conversation between two people. It could be a boss and a an associate. It could be a teacher and a coach, a athlete. There will be so much of the mental aspect that is that is discussed, but we just say, you know, just relax, be confident. But how to do that is something that's being missed out. And what that does is it creates so many little gaps, it creates so much confusion, so much helplessness, we stop taking those things seriously, because we just start feeling it's easier said than done. So if we can actually break it down, we can actually tell you how you can actually build your confidence, how you can actually relax in those high pressure moments, that is what can be a game changer.

Tara Khandelwal: 9:42

No, I can't tell you. I absolutely agree with that, because it's so much mental and actually, my introduction to this whole field of sports psychology, because I obviously didn't know anything about it was because of my cousin, and because she's a squash player, she has a team, and she goes to the sports psychologist. And I was very intrigued. I was like, Oh, what do you all discuss there? What do you what do you guys, you know, do? Why do you need a sports psychologist? And then she explained to me that, you know, actually, that's one of the most crucial members of, you know, her performance, and it's so mental. And because she's already at this amazing physical level, and she even meditates, and, you know, she's like, 80% of the game is mental. And then when I go watch her at her tournaments and stuff as well. I see that shift in on I see sort of all the things that she's talking about and, you know, the pre game rituals that you mentioned in the book, the emotional regulation. You know, when you're on the court, you know, even she says things like, you know, you just let your instincts take over, and you don't overthink every hit or every swing. And so those kind of things, you know, for me, seeing, seeing it up close, because we're very close, was very, very fascinating, which is why I wanted to speak to actual sports psychologists and figure out, you know, what goes into it. And one part of this book that really struck me was the importance of practicing, you know. And you say that the best performance should not happen during the match, it should happen during the practice. And one thing is that you should also simulate, you know, the pressure situations, because it's very different to practice, you know, without having an audience watch you and you speak about something called the audience effect. So I want to hear from you. You know, when you are working with any of these athletes. You know who you work with? What are some of the ways that you help them perform under pressure? So

Divya Jain: 11:35

yes, it's a fact that our performance changes when we're in a high pressure situation. There's a lot of adrenaline that's pumping. So you know, our breathing, our heart rate, even our muscle tension changes. The things that we focus on, tend to change as well, and that's where the audience effect comes in, which is that if you perform, if you're really good at something, and if people are watching, chances are you're going to get even better. But if there are areas where you are doubtful and people are watching, or it's it's a harder task, then your performance can actually deteriorate at that time. So performance is is a social concept. Performance is not just an individual concept. This is something we sometimes forget. So learning to practice, learning to put ourselves in those high stress situations while we are practicing, so that we know how we deal with things going wrong. So we talk about visualizing, as you know, visualizing perfect outcomes, and imagine the forest and imagine the beaches. But at the same time, we also need to visualize the things that can go wrong. And this is not about negative thinking. This is about preparing. So if I know that my goggles are going to fill up with water, what am I going to do if I know that my mic is not going to work, or it's going to have a glitch at a certain point. What can I do at that time? So practice is where people get their confidence from. Practice is where our connections are formed in our mind, so we know Okay, Plan A is not working. What is Plan B? What is Plan C? What is Plan D? And that's how we bring that together.

Tara Khandelwal: 13:06

Yeah, I like the example of Michael Phelps, and when he was, you know, swimming one race, his goggles had filled up, but because he'd already practiced that scenario, he knew how many strokes he needed to do to get to the end of the pool. And I found that very compelling. Because really, you know, practice does make perfect. And as a founder, also of a company, I always tell my team, you know, don't go into any meetings without unprepared, like prepare for every single meeting, because you can't just sort of rely on experience at the end of the day. If you practice certain situations, it's always better. So I really like that part of the book, and I'm just very fascinated. You know, as Dr Parekh, you said that you were part of the India team at the Paris Olympics. I mean, that must have been such an intense and incredible experience. Could you tell me a little bit more what it was like being there, what kind of pressure these athletes were facing, and what sort of was your role? How did you keep their morale and focus during this high stakes event?

Samir Parikh: 14:07

A couple of things to this one, I think, like I mentioned earlier, that as a mental health professional, the fact that mental health professionals went as a part of the medical team, to me, that is the most important aspect, and that's something I cherish. And this could have been any one of us, or anybody else, I would have still felt the same, because mental health needed to be integrated in the life of an athlete, especially for these big tournaments. And that, I think, is a is kudos to IO and all the decision makers having said that, I think it's a once in a lifetime experience all said and done because it was fascinating, right? It was like a world which could actually be a happy place, right? And a world that is a world in itself, that you'll have all these areas or buildings or homes for each country. So for example, our neighbors were Spain. So you're walking back at 5pm after doing some work that you've done, and you're crossing the dial and you're alone that, and if you just cross right and and you realize the equal equalizer, that's what says the that there are no stars and there are only athletes and coaches and trainers and staff, and the dining area was, again, a very, very fascinating area. You can imagine as big as it gets, and you have teams from various countries continents, sitting together, having their own bit their own. Approach to it, and you would cross some of these biggest names, and they'll also be selling their food, and you'll be doing that and sit where you get a chance. It's almost like a mini utopia of sorts. The relaxation areas were nice as a bit of music, my favorite bit the ice cream that you could have every now and then. And I think that whole approach that was fascinating and and the fact that how different people prepare for their own games, you would have, let's say so we had, for example, a wall of positivity where everyone had written a message, from PT Usha to to Niraj, to Prakash, padugo and Bucha and so on and so forth. Everybody had written their messages, Siva Gagan, all of everybody had written messages, and which was our own way to motivate each other. We had countries where, you know, the smaller continent, but somebody going to play and they'll do a guard of honor, they'll tap and do something, you know, evenings will celebrate, so on and so forth. So there was a lot the, I think, the the human vibrancy and and positivity to that was quite something. And to me, I always remember this, the this couple of weeks that I was at the Olympics with this because I think that aspect was, was

Divya Jain: 17:24

quite, quite nice for me. Actually. What was most fascinating was you, you enter this gym, which is this. I mean, imagine a gym for all the Olympians in the world, right? And you imagine about 200 of them working out, about 50 odd people running on treadmills, all sorts of things. And then you go up the first floor, and inside the gym, you enter something called the mind zone, which is essentially a mental gym, right? So players can actually go in. And a lot of players were using it evenings before their competition throughout where you could use some virtual reality simulation to build some confidence or relax yourself. You could do some painting. You could do some writing, send a letter, a postcard. Back home, they had counselors there to talk to as well if someone needed to. But having a space recognizing that the mental health aspect is just as important as the physical and the need to come in together, right? So, yes, a lot of people will say that the mental aspect of the game is something that has to be prepared well in advance, and that's true, you will need four years, eight years, 10 years, just like you would with physical training, to also build up your mental skill right at the same time. There is also a lot that can be done in those few days, because that is such a high pressure moment. It's there's a once in a lifetime so many 10 year old athletes you talk to now, and you ask them, Why are you playing? And they're saying, Oh, we want to be in the Olympics in 2036 and they're dreaming about that right now. Some have tattoos. Some have posters on their walls. Some have it in their diaries. So this is a moment that they've been looking forward to for that long, what they've been training for. So the kind of pressures that they experience at that time. At the same time, there's a lot of chatter that also increases. Suddenly, your following on social media increases. Media influences increase. All of those things happen. So it is a very, very high stress environment. How you navigate that, how you make sure that you don't try too hard, but you do what you do every day, and that's how you're able to perform your best. And I think another crucial aspect is not just in the lead up to the games, but actually what happens after the game, after a match, whether you win a medal, whether you don't win a medal, how do you deal with those wins and losses? How do you make sure that you're able to maintain that morale? Because, I mean, let's face it, right, in any game, three people with minimum medal in a sport and 40 or 50 won't how do you let that affect you? How do you make that motivate you further, so that you're back at it again, back on the field the next day? And I think that was, that was interesting for me. Wow. I

Tara Khandelwal: 20:05

can only imagine. I mean, I'm just so fascinated by how these athletes, to me, they're sort of, you know, superhuman, because they kind of almost perform these super human feats. So what you know was your role, was it sort of, you would have sessions with these athletes, or, you know, you were just there, and they would come to you, talk to you, could you just walk me through a little bit more about how that looked like,

Divya Jain: 20:29

yes. So it was a it was a combination. So our role there was that of a wellness, mental wellness expert, right? And you recognize that players again, have been working, have been training for a long time with their own team, with their own coaches, psychologists, physiotherapists, and all of those aspects. So our role. There was to was to be available for anyone who required certain kind of help, for people to know that there is help available, being there, being present at all times. So there were some players who were able to approach us, talk to us again the day before a match, the day after a match, both aspects some would you're going to watch certain matches as well, be a part of the celebrations. Also make sure that there was a sense of team camaraderie. That was also that players could experience how they were able to motivate each other, how impacts of one sport or one event, what kind of impact that was happening on players of other events. What were the kind of conversations going on there? What was the kind of setup that was created over there? How do they stay motivated? How do they stay positive? Those are some of the things that we were doing. So it was with psychology. The thing is that you have to be mindful. I mean, in any field, in fact, of where you're intervening, how much you're intervening. So you have to there are spaces where even a five minute conversation before a match can make a difference, right? So recognizing where those spots are, recognizing where you can do that, recognizing where people need their own space, where they actually need their own support systems, their own friends and family to be there, present, and so playing with that kind of dynamic nature of the field.

Tara Khandelwal: 22:10

So how do you even train to sort of be a sports psychologist? And were any of you sportsmen, sports people growing up?

Samir Parikh: 22:19

No, what I did cannot be called sports, but I'd like to believe it, and so would my school teachers. But not the least, it was just an embarrassment, whatever it was. But I think Divya is a bit of a competitive person. I'm a very relaxed putting just about the effort that I can Divya is very competitive person. I think she'll be able to answer this. So, no,

Divya Jain: 22:46

I have a similar answer to Dr parek, in the sense that I used to play badminton, but any badminton player would disagree. They would not think that that was badminton that was happening. And I think maybe if I had better support at that time, when I was 14 years old, I might have become a badminton player. I was always somewhere, an aspiration, but not something I ever felt I could reach. So, so, yes, but and I so this is something I often joke about. I am a competitive person, but I'm competitive even if I'm playing Ludo and every point I want to win, but I'm perfectly fine if I don't, right if I lose, I'm not a sore loser. I think that's something that Dr Parekh would have to agree with I like to focus. I like to give it my best, because I think that's where the most fun can be had. And that's also, that's my very deep answer to why I became a sports psychologist as well. It was fun, right? I combined two of my favorite fields together, and you tell me that I can do that job where I can be a part of sport and do psychology, it was perfect for me. And so to become a sports psychologist, you need to have a background in psychology. So a bachelor's degree in psychology, typically would be ideal. And after that, now, because of the emphasis that the government is putting on promoting sport, there are now a few masters programs in sports psychology as well dedicated which have come up. These didn't exist back when I was studying for them. I sound like a bit of a fossil when I say that, but so I did a lot of certifications after my masters in in psychology to add on to that. But yes, now you will definitely have fantastic options of masters programs in sports psychology. And there is much of a demand for people to be doing this field and get be getting absorbed pretty fast. Oh, it

Tara Khandelwal: 24:37

sounds like a really, really up and coming and fascinating field of study. I'm sure it'll only grow. And I think you know, as Dr Parekh said, also that importance of sports psychology and psychology in general is increasing. I remember, when I was in college, this was in 2008 head start college, I actually wanted to study psychology, and I was considering becoming a psychologist. At that time, I was told that nobody goes to therapy, nobody goes to therapy. Won't make any money. There's nobody who sort of, there's no demand for that. You know, it was a very different ecosystem at that time. So I think definitely things are changing for the better. I also want to know the process of, sort of, co authoring this book. How did you decide that, okay, you know, now is the time we want to write this book. Was there any trigger point, and how did you divide the work between yourselves? What was that whole process like?

Samir Parikh: 25:32

We've been wanting to write for a while, and then life just passes by, and you find things to do with it. Again, you feel that you should do it, and then again, you forget it. And then you have a. Publish from Rupa publication to remind you that you promised me a book, and then it's okay, fine, I'm starting here. Then you again, let it be and then you again, get a reminder, so on and so forth. And then the Olympics happen, and that's when this idea got a lot better formed. That one has been working for several years now with athletes, if that skill set that the athletes develop to reach the highest level, how about students, young people, people starting their careers, people in leadership position, how much it can help them as well, and that's how this whole idea came. And then it was most words of Divya and a little bit of fine tuning by me, because the younger person does more effort in the room, as simple as that.

Divya Jain: 26:42

So the way I like to look at it, sports psychology was me, and life lessons was Dr parek, and that was an interesting way of putting it together. And yes, I've often received these taunts about the delays in the book, and used to them now. And writing a book is also just like any other field of performance. It's about putting yourself out there. And that can be a lot of resistance we could experience even in the field like this, just like any other and there were times when I actually had to use some of what I was writing to keep myself motivated, to overcome my own self doubts in that moment, to get some coaching from Dr Paik at moments where I would feel stuck. So it's it's been an interesting journey, and it's something that has made me more empathetic towards a lot of other other performers, a lot of artists as well. Oh,

Tara Khandelwal: 27:31

that's very interesting. Yeah. It is all about sort of, you know, performance, I think. And that's one of the things that I really like in the book. This, one of the strongest messages is that this book isn't just for athletes, it's for anyone who wants to be the best at what they do. You know, whether you're an entrepreneur, they're a professional, because it's all about, you know how every small win matters, how every setback also, you know should not cause you to give up, but maybe you know you have to keep going despite those setbacks. And I'm a solo founder, and I've been doing this, running my own company for eight years now, and there have been a lot of moments where I've just wanted to quit. You know, there have been some really high highs and some really low lows. And I think, you know, one of the things that I've also learned, which I resonated in the in the book, is often as it will happen, is I would, I would, something good would happen, then you'd very quickly move on. But if something bad happens and you sort of dwell on that moment, so I think definitely that this book is very relevant for non sports people as well, and help them keep them or al high one of the things I really liked in the book is a story of Jana novatna, who was just a game away from winning the Wimbledon, and she double faulted, and she ended up losing in what's considered one of the biggest jokes in sports history. I love watching tennis. It's very interesting story. And what stood out was she came back, she didn't give up, and she finally won Wimbledon 1998 and you use this example to show that legacies aren't built on a single moment, but on the ability to bounce back. So you know, what are some of the key mental strategies that you would recommend for athletes or for anyone, to help them shift from disappointment to determination?

Divya Jain: 29:27

I think if you're a non athlete, I would tell you to watch sport, because I think that's one aspect that really helps you overcome these losses. And this particular example is stuck. Even my dad came up to me when he was reading the book. He said, I remember watching this match, and I remember what happened later as well. These are some of the stories that we have grown up hearing about witnessing experiences. And there are a lot of examples, right? You'll hear a federal say the same thing. The recent match with similar and alkaras was was an example of what was going on. The current Wimbledon is a very interesting example of the kind of highs and lows that people are experiencing. But again, so there are some specific strategies that each of us can use to overcome these setbacks. Yes, we can say, don't give up. Try again, but a lot of this is actually a game of focus, right? So when we have a so called bad moment, a lot of times, our focus tends to get stuck in that moment. Our focus shifts into the into the past, right? So what is actually the right technique at that moment is, how do we bring our focus back into the present moment? So a lot of players use this switch off, switch on technique, where they disconnect from the previous point that's happened. Shift the focus to something unrelated to the game. You know, it could be a little song Someone is singing. It could be looking at some birds. It could be. Talking to someone else, if you have a chance to their pre performance, pre point routines that players have, so that they're able to bring their mind out of that moment, bring it into the present moment. Focus a lot more on their actual environment, you know, a very multi sensory experience. Focus on what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're able to feel at that time and then that that's actually something that can help you focus a lot more on the next point, also recognizing some of these gaps a lot of times. You know, players deliberately do things differently after a mistake as a as a way of overcompensating. So make sure that they don't try too hard, they don't give up, but they make sure that they go back to their game plan, continue doing what they were supposed to do. It's, you know, it's like I said, when your mobile phone starts to glitch, you switch it off and you restart it, and it starts working again. So that, I think, is the best way to to overcome a setback.

Tara Khandelwal: 31:44

Yeah, it sounds very easy, but very difficult to put into practice when you're in that in that mental space, I'm sure for athletes, they're probably sort of much better at this. I was very also fascinated by, you know, speaking of Wimbledon, you said that that is one of the sports where actually there's a lot of downtime, and that leads to something called anticipatory anxiety, which I found very interesting, because I think, you know, that was finally a word that made sense for a lot of us. You know that anticipation before the exam, or before you have to go on a stage and speak publicly, you know that is often worse than sort of when you're doing the task itself, the anticipation of the task. So how you know, how do you overcome that

Samir Parikh: 32:30

anticipation is bound to happen right now. One you need to back yourself, and you can back yourself if you've practiced enough, if you've researched it off, if you've, ah, simulated your practice in the right manner, if you've looked at most scenarios, you could be a student. You could be having a big meeting, whatever it is. I mean, some amount of anticipatory anxiety in any case is needed, because if you are just not bothered about it, you probably never do well. So you it needs to psych you up. You need to want to do well, and that will give you a bit of an arousal, which you now need to harness to be able to put the effort and then you back yourself, and that's how you harness this anxiety, so that you can work well. But if, let's say, the anxiety starts impacting you negatively, your sleep, your thought process, your belief system, confidence, if all of that starts getting impacted your mind is giving you all sorts of negative thoughts. This is when you need to look into your past look into your past performances, see what you've done, then remind yourself of that. This is when you talk to your coach. This is when to when you talk to your family, friends and well wishers. This is when you look at your own past performance and some recordings, and you also talk to your mental health support system, and then you try and figure it out. Then how do you still keep moving forward? Because once you are in it and you are in the flow, then all of this is going to start falling in place as well, and that's the way to look at it. I don't see anticipatory anxiety by itself is a negative thing. I think some of it is needed. It's just how do you harness it?

Tara Khandelwal: 34:14

And I also wanted to ask about the pre preparation rituals that you spoke about in the book, and how that sort of also helps with performance, you know. So could you speak a little bit about you said that Nadal does certain things, you know, and every athlete has these little rituals that they do. And I recently saw the f1 movie, and in that movie, he puts a playing card into his pocket, and he doesn't see sort of what the card is till after he races. So I find these pre preparation rituals very interesting. Why are they important? So they zone you in,

Samir Parikh: 34:47

and they bring a rhythm to your performance. There is so much of unpredictability, so much of uncertainty. You don't know how the dice is going to fall today. You need some some sense of you know that there is a bit of structure. There is a bit of a routine and rhythm into this chaos that may soon happen, and that's how I look at it. I mean, Divya has a lot, many more examples. I must tell you that, as a very young person in school, I remember the red handkerchief of Mohandas. You'd heard about how Mr. Gasker would prepare before a test match. You some of some people would, you know, put the left back first. Somebody would do something else, that all of this was in their own way, zoning in, that people would be getting it. Because this is when you psych yourself. Path at the same time, you bring a structure to the chaos that's now going to happen so soon.

Divya Jain: 35:52

Yes. So routines matter a lot in sport and across like you were talking about anticipatory anxiety, right? So these pre performance routines are something that can actually help us cope and harness with this anxiety very well. An example, I remember once working with an athlete where they would and this is pretty common, they would perform a lot better if their match was in the morning hours, and they would not perform as well if their match was in the evening hours, because they had so much more time to just think and worry about what was going to happen. Now obviously we can't control the schedule. So what we do? We put a routine in place. So if your match is in the evening, which is going to happen often, what are the things that you need to do during your day so that you're able to stay relaxed, you're able to stay focused at the same time, you don't let the worry overwhelm you. What then comes next is, you know, the color of the clothes that you're going to be wearing, because that also is something that starts to matter. In fact, in certain sports, it's been found statistically found, for example, in boxing, it's been statistically found that the player who wears red tends to win a little bit more often. I'm not going to get into the psychology of that, but so that's another interesting element, but mostly it's a mostly it's a personal association that you have with a certain thing. So it's important for all of us to feel confident. And while a lot of that confidence will come from our preparation, will come from our past experiences, if we feel like we can create a little bit of our own luck, and that's something that's going to help us, because if I feel like I'm I've put in the effort and I'm lucky, that's going to make me go after those moments a lot more. So I am going to die for that catch. I am going to sprint. I am going to give it everything I've got. So that little bit of luck is something that just boosts our confidence little bit

Tara Khandelwal: 37:46

more. It reminds me of in Harry Potter, when Harry, sort of, you know, gives Ron the felix felicis, which is actually he doesn't give it, but Ron thinks he's given it to him, and it's a elixir of luck. And Ron really smashes it out of the game and the Quidditch match. And then he realizes, Oh, it was he didn't have anything at all. It was just his performance. And that was such a lovely sort of indicator on, you know, how when you're feeling good, when you're feeling confident, when you're feeling lucky, you can perform. And it's so much about that mental state that you're in. Speaking about, you know, support systems. And you mentioned that a strong support system is very key for athletes. I've seen it in my own cousin, my cousin's parents, you know, they've given up a lot for her to train. They've traveled with her. You know, even her sister is very much there for her, the coach. There's a whole team that is there that is surrounding her. But what if an athlete feels like the inner circle is not supportive or, you know, somebody who wants to play sport but doesn't have the parents supporting them as they should be. How can they find or build a healthier environment? How do you navigate that?

Samir Parikh: 38:55

No, that's a tough one, right? Because a lot of athletes, their formative years are as much younger people, where you are very much dependent in various various aspects of your life on your parents. So the support system is important. And yes, as you grow up, that support system will shape around you. And yes, there will be times in your life when some aspects or some vectors of that support system may not be functioning the way you would have wanted them to. People have had change of coaches. People have changed their psychologists. People have changed their nutritionist, their physical trainers. People have gone through, you know, separating from their practice partners. These things do happen because, like how in life, relationships don't always follow a constant. It applies to athletes as well. Having said that, a support system will make a huge difference. Now, yes, in the evolution, you may have transitions, including in your support system, that's there, but, but I do feel family support does matter.

Tara Khandelwal: 40:16

Yeah, it seems like that. Because from whatever stories that we've heard and and all of the even Tiger words or any of these athletes, it seems like you know, the parental figures have been very, very important in their formative years, and that's actually made a big difference. So that, I mean, that is quite interesting. We see stories like that across the board. But for parents listening to this podcast who want to support their kids in any competitive field and sports, what's one simple thing they can do to help the child build a positive. Of healthy mindset from a young age.

Samir Parikh: 40:50

Just a couple of things from my side, and let the technicalities come from the expert here. Honest. One is then just help them enjoy. Don't make this everything into pressure. Everything is not an exam. Everything is not about how many marks you got if you are enjoying and if you are focusing on upping your abilities, your skill set, your performance every time you go out on the field, the natural course of success is going to happen at the same time. Try and ensure that you are able to give the best that is available in terms of skill building and support system as well, and look at what fits in with your child and not what comes with the brand. So it's not that just because a particular coach, a particular mental health expert has worked with XYZ, it's going to also work for this young individual. It's a fit. So you'll need to wait for that fit and facilitate that fit to happen. That's how you should do, which will make sure that everything that's needed is there, and the individual enjoys. Divya mentioned about her career, very similar that I can say for working now as a psychiatrist, like I said, just under 30 years and that is very much like that. If I am able to find meaning and I'm able to experience joy in what I am doing, I will end up bringing my best out there repeatedly, again and again, and then somebody needs to help me harness that. And that's how I look at

Divya Jain: 42:31

it. I actually see it as an extension of what Dr PARIKH has said, just to put it slightly more technically. So one, there is no replacement for fun when it comes to focus, because fun is actually the most effective strategy to focus on the present moment, right? If you're having fun, you will not be thinking about auto homework tomorrow or what fight happened yesterday, you're going to be in that moment. And for me, that is what mental strength is also, which is to recognize what is important and to be able to focus on that at that moment. So while we encourage kids to have fun, I'd want parents to also role model that behavior themselves, right? So we can't just tell a child or results don't matter. Just give it your best, but you yourself are doing the mathematics of, oh, which round Oh, how many points? How did you lose this point? Which is the easy player? Which is the difficult player? It is going to require some amount of self restraint, because it's something we've been used to for so long, but from our own perspective, also recognizing what is important in that moment, making sure we do that, we are able to role model that behavior, and that's going to have far more impact than what we say to the player, because at the end of the day, we have to realize, I think, life is a team sport. It's not an individual sport, and each person needs to do their part.

Tara Khandelwal: 43:43

I don't think, you know, growing up in India, we're taught that that's a good thing, necessarily. But I do think that, especially for me, I think, yeah, my best performance is also when that joy is there. And I think that holds true for all all human beings, and we should be sort of celebrating and appreciating that life is also about having fun and having that joy. You know, it's not all sort of hard work. And I mean, obviously it is hard work, but it's not that doesn't have to be in tandem with sort of suffering. Okay, so now this brings me to my last section of the interview, which is the rapid fire round. I'm going to ask you a few questions that you have to give only one word answers

Divya Jain: 44:26

to. Okay, so

Tara Khandelwal: 44:30

who's a sports person you think has the strongest mental game right now? No,

Samir Parikh: 44:34

I will always go back to history. For me, it will always be Sachin Tendulkar, hundreds and hundreds of years down the lane. One person always

Tara Khandelwal: 44:43

love it. What about you? Divine? Because Roger feiter. Roger. I loved that. I loved his speech about how he lost, I think, I don't know the exact statistic, but almost half of his points, and how he just kept going. I think that was just such a I think it was one of the greatest speeches ever. Okay, one word you'd use to describe a true champion

Samir Parikh: 45:07

in values, that's how you become, where you become. You take values out of the context you it's not humankind cannot be complete without that confidence.

Tara Khandelwal: 45:18

Confidence, yeah, your favorite sports movie of all

Samir Parikh: 45:21

time. Sports movie, shadows of fire. Haven't

Divya Jain: 45:25

seen one in a

Samir Parikh: 45:28

while. I know Divya favorite. I'll tell you Divya favorite,

Tara Khandelwal: 45:31

chant day chagde. Love it. Your favorite sports book?

Samir Parikh: 45:37

One of my favorite sports book was a book on the Indian spin quartre, which is on the live. Of Miss vedi suprasana Venkataraman and Mr. Chandra Shekhar. Fascinating, fabulous, great resilience and very, very inspiring. I'm actually

Divya Jain: 45:59

reading something called 12 yards right now, which is about penalty shootouts and the preparation and the psyche of someone who's actually about to make that that kick at that moment. Wow. And what's your favorite spot to watch?

Samir Parikh: 46:15

It'll be cricket. But Test cricket, I need to be very, very clear. Not T 20, not one day, none of those 10, oh, 10 and hundreds and not, not a test. Thanks for

Divya Jain: 46:29

me. It's badminton. Although, ever since working and getting involved in Olympic sport, I find myself enjoying lawn bowling, track and field, javelin was a lot of fun to watch. Golf, all of those, all of those events as

Tara Khandelwal: 46:45

well. Oh, that's absolutely fantastic. I think this has been, I think such a fascinating conversation for me. I think I could just keep going on and on. It was so great. Talking to both of you today. Thank you for sharing your insights and to everyone listening. Thank you for tuning into Books and Beyond. If you have a friend who wants to learn how to build a champion mindset, send them this episode. And if you've got a story about how you've developed your own champion mindset, drop it in the comments. Don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Hope you enjoy this episode of Books and

Michelle D'costa: 47:22

Beyond with bound. This podcast is created by bound, a company that helps you grow through story. Find us at Tom India on all social media

Tara Khandelwal: 47:31

platforms. Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the lives and minds of some brilliant authors from India and South Asia. You.