8.9 Bhawana Somaaya: What Partition Stole, and Writing Restored

What happens when a celebrated film journalist turns the camera inward? 

In this moving episode, veteran critic and author Bhawana Somaaya unpacks her memoir Farewell Karachi. Known for her decades-long career documenting Bollywood’s biggest stars like Hema Malini and Amitabh Bachchan, Bhawana shares the deeply personal stories behind her family’s displacement from Karachi to Mumbai during Partition.

She recounts everything from her mother’s hilarious one-liners about working as a young journalist in the 1970s to the emotional weight of her father’s solitary journey during Partition and the legacy of a lost home. The conversation flows through intimate anecdotes, candid reflections, and the subtle power of memories that shape who we become.

Bhawana’s honest reflections offer a masterclass in sensitivity and storytelling. Her journey shows that emotional intelligence isn’t just a trait—it’s a lens, a compass, and sometimes, the story itself.

Books, shows, and films mentioned in this episode:

• Because He Is by Meghna Gulzar
• Darlingji: The True Love Story of Nargis and Sunil Dutt by Kishwar Desai
• Parveen Babi by Karishma Upadhyay
• A Palace of Illusions by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni
• Pakeezah
• Garm Hava 
• Navrang
• Kaun Banega Crorepati

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

Tara Khandelwal: 0:01

Foreign Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'm Michelle d'cota, in this podcast, we talk to India's finest

Michelle D'costa: 0:10

authors and uncover the stories behind the best written book

Tara Khandelwal: 0:15

and dissect how these books shape our lives and worldviews today.

Michelle D'costa: 0:20

So let's dive in.

Tara Khandelwal: 0:22

Hi everyone. Welcome back to Books and Beyond. So if you are a regular listener, you know how much I love reading stories about the partition, and we have spoken to authors lecture of energy and Acharya Malhotra on the podcast, and so many authors who have written on the partition. But today I am super excited because we have Bhavna Somaya ma'am, and she's a film journalist, and she has written extensively on Hindi cinema and biographies of actors like Amitabh Bachchan and Hema Malini. And she has taken a very different take on the partition with her book farewell Karachi, which is a lovely memoir where she looks inwards and she writes about five generations of her own family, so it's a lovely family story, and she writes about the journey they went through as they uprooted the entire lives and moved from Karachi to Bombay. Now, my great grandfather had also uprooted his entire life and moved from Karachi to Bombay as well. And I was always so curious about, you know, his life, but he's obviously no more, and I never had access to it, so I was all the more interested in reading this book. So thank you, Bhavna, ma'am, and welcome to the podcast.

Bhawana Ma'am: 1:30

Thank you for inviting me, and I'm very surprised that somebody as young as you also has a baggage of the partition, and even if your grandfather is no more, I'm sure you found him somewhere lurking in my book and the voice you found I

Tara Khandelwal: 1:49

did. I did. That's That's why I enjoyed it so much, you know. And I just wish that I the way you had access to your family stories. I just wish I had access, because I can't imagine building life from scratch. So the first thing I want to ask you is about Karachi itself, because you say that Karachi is like a lot lost sibling to, you know. And I really like that analogy because you said it's always there every dinner table conversation, and your parents would bring it up all the time, and obviously, you know, you've never been able to go so can you tell me what it was like to write about this city, and why have you decided? Okay, you know, I will write this memoir right now see

Bhawana Ma'am: 2:29

when I was your age, and when they spoke about partition, and they spoke about migration and they spoke about displacement. I don't think we take it that seriously. We just think that it's something that happened to them, and we move on with our lives and our careers. It's as you get older and you understand things and you see the larger picture, that things start taking shape in your head. But I think that because Karachi was always in the conversation and omnipresent at our home, and it was a very large family, I was always curious, and maybe that's why I became a writer. So I was always asking many questions, but I was not making any notes. There was no notes. There was no ambition to become a journalist or to become a writer. When I grew up, it was just inquisitiveness, curiosity, asking, and I have a very good memory, so it's all there in my head and heart. I didn't set about to write a book on the city called Karachi. I just set about to pay tribute to my parents, and wrote this book. And then while we were juggling with what title to call it, instead of making it a personal title, I felt that it should be a more generic title, so more readers are drawn to it, and that is how I said farewell Karachi, because now in my head, I have resigned to the fact that I will never see the city, because the situations are getting worse and I'm getting older, so maybe I'll never go there. And it was never meant to be. That's why, in spite of writing so many books, I was never invited for Karachi Lit Fest. I was never invited to Lahore Film Festival. It just never happened. And actually, I started writing the book only about a year and a half ago. I hesitated and I hesitated and I hesitated of starting to punch the words on my keyboard. I was in my head and heart drawing pictures. Then I said it's now or never, because I'm getting older. And then I remembered Yash Chopra in an interview, said to me that when I wanted to make veer Zara and I was frailer and older, my son said to me that, Papa, you don't need to go to Karachi Allahu. Everything is available on the internet. And I'll show it to you. So I said, if ya Shukra can make Vir Zara without going to the soil. I kept fantasizing that I need to breathe the soil. I need to see the city in my own way and feel the textures. I realized that I don't need to do that. In fact, I think now the distance is better because it keeps my objectivity, and which is also the reason this is not a documentation of the family in terms of memories. I am not speaking to every member of the family and asking them, What are your memories of the grandfather, or what are your memories of the father. It's my memories and where I am failing in the jigsaw puzzle falling into place. For example, on that day when the riots broke out in 47 then my blood sister, the oldest one, is no more, so I called up my Mercy's daughter, my cousin, and I asked her to record because she's almost the same age, so it's when I'm stumbling, I'm asking otherwise, it's my memoir

Tara Khandelwal: 6:09

understood. And that's very interesting, because I was going to ask you about your research process, you know, because you and now I know that you said that you have a good memory, and that shows

Bhawana Ma'am: 6:20

the research was there, yeah, my oldest sister gave me a list of our ancestors and how they worked and where. So that gave me a kind of premise. And then my sister in Berlin, who I repeatedly said that you write down for me the description of our Karachi ancestral home and our Bucha home the catch. And she said, I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. And she never did. And years rolled into decades. And then she expired, and then my brother in law expired, and then my nephew was clearing the house. And, you know, giving things away in abroad, it is like one day you come, the children come from different cities, and they just clear it. They give it away, everything and donation. And beneath her mattress, she found exercise sheets where she has written the description of the two houses. And I was waiting, I think, for that. Then, of course, it is the writer's skill about where are you going to put it, which chapter and how and what, who has told me. So, you know, it was, I was, it was a gamble. I didn't have any chronological order. See, when you're doing a book on Bachan, I know satyendusani is the beginning. I know Alaba this the beginning, and I know that Kalinga is the end at the moment, same with him, Malani, but I didn't know anything. I was just, I think the universe wanted to help me. So it fell into together, yeah, and Javed Saab. That is Javed actor. He knows my family, so he kept saying, liquid CO fiction, liquor, her chapter, a kick. Sebring, good. Dedicate Karu to page up we Hoge apne fiction, leaky head to beneca, because I said that I felt that people would be addicted to the story or the narrative if they know it's my real story. By fictionalizing it, I'm trivializing it. And I said I didn't do it the way you asked me to do it. I did it the way it came to me. A writer cannot go by any footnotes of anybody. I cannot look back. I cannot ask somebody to help me. I'm on the delivery table, and I'm delivering a child. How the labor pangs I go through, whether it's going to be a smooth delivery or the baby, is going to trouble me, is my fate.

Tara Khandelwal: 8:52

I love that story about how I found the sketches, and that was really wonderful. And I think, yes, the universe probably did conspire. You know, these are things that sometimes just happen to us. And you said the book is one and a half years that it took you one and a half years, but I think it's so many more years in the making when that it finally came together in one and a half years. And you also said that, you know, you could not travel to Karachi, but you could travel and you travel to Kutch, and you travel to these other places where your family had these routes. So could you tell me a little bit more about that?

Bhawana Ma'am: 9:23

So I went to Kutch and saw the historical places like the mandavi port, the Dharamshala, where they took one night stay before moving to Bucha. It all looked so faded and pale, and I took a very brief tour to Kalyan, where the refuge camp was there. The refugee camp doesn't exist anymore. But I saw the colony, poor Andre colony, and then I went to Mulu. Moon where I was born. And you know, it's so strange, because my memory of mulloon is I was there only for three and a half years. They took me away from there, and when I was four years old, I started my school at matuga, sad, but I remember me crawling in the kitchen when my mother was cooking or doing her domestic chores, and she had one toy for me. You know of two wrestlers, wrestling, you know where you're pulling one stick. I don't know why my mother thought that her eighth girl child should be given to wrestlers, but that is somebody must have given her that toy, and she must have given it to me at that time, that space looked so big because I was a child, and now, when I visited that place, that whole building has turned into a commercial complex. And I told the Watchman, is there anybody who is still living here? And he said, key sub bargain. Mother ek family Hai, Mother wo aapko under cu aninge. So I said, consi Manzil peh, let me try. So I went to her, and I said that I once lived here, and she couldn't believe me. So I said, My parents lived here. I said, Can I come in? And reluctantly, she agreed, because nobody was at home, and we were sitting in that kitchen where I remember myself crawling, and the kitchen looks so small. And I said, what has happened? Has my vision change? Am I now a big adult, grown up, and, you know, my mother used to have a homemade swing on the door with a sari, put on it like a saddle, and they would put me on it, and I it faced the station road. And whole day I used to sit there, and whoever the adult was passing by would just pat me so that the swing was on. And I feel that my observations and my power of absorption started somewhere there, because I was wholly facing the street and listening to adult sounds and watching the vendors, the hawkers, the people who were buying veggies, passers by, what they were, what they the body language. I think all that

Tara Khandelwal: 12:26

you're a fabulous storyteller. Can I can just imagine myself then what you said about visiting places of your childhood. My grandpa used to take us to this beach hotel when we were kids. And I remember it, you know, to be this very grand, huge kind of property, and I remember us swimming in the pool, and I recently went back to see it, and it was so small and it was so unassuming, and it was not grand. And I mean, it's so funny how our memories can also distort depending on sort of the age we're at and where we're at, and the emotional resonance that we attach to these things. So I think also you've written that in the book way, and I really resonated with that as well. You know,

Bhawana Ma'am: 13:07

Tara, it is about as you rise in life and status. So I only visit the best homes because I'm meeting people who are the dream merchants and who made it very big in life. But the only constants in my life are the siblings, the friends and the relatives and their homes remain almost unchanged, and it doesn't make a difference to the equation of the relationship or to my vision of

Tara Khandelwal: 13:36

them. Oh, absolutely, those relationships are the ones that ground you. And coming back, you know the stories about partition. You know, I love stories about partition. I read a lot, watch a lot of movies, and actually did my thesis on partition when I was in college as well. So that's why I was very excited to do this. But I wanted to ask you, since you're a film critic, you know, there's so many movies coming out around this topic. So how does it feel now, sort of, as a film critic, to watch all these movies and this content that's coming out. Do they resonate with you, or do you tend to detach

Bhawana Ma'am: 14:10

from them? So many films on partition one has seen, and they are different projections of the director, but it was always when you saw them or you read books on them. It was something that happened to somebody else. But it is when I'm putting that incident where my cousin talks to me about how the house was invaded and how her MLA Doctor father said, shut the gates, shut the door, shut everything, and there were only four women of different age group in the house, and my heart goes out for my aunt, who has the acumen that she cannot help her mother in law and sister in law, but she has to save her young daughter and how she locks herself up in the store room. And that anguish, you know, because a child is screaming and she's covering her mouth, will stay with me forever. It's chilling and and when the gates open and when the men come, the entire house, the vehicles, everything is in flames. But for me, the saddest moment in the book is one when my mother has a miscarriage and she endures it on her own because she's so sensitive to her partner, who should not be troubled after two jobs a day and will only wake him up when it's time to go to the hospital. I think that kind of sensitivity is seldom showed in today's marriages, it's all about yourself and immediate sharing, which is sometimes wrong, because you need to process things. And when my father is lost and has not come back, and the family is waiting in the Kutch house, and when he comes looking like a scavenger and they cannot recognize him, I have wept every single

Tara Khandelwal: 16:01

time. Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, it was a very emotional journey. You know, reading the book as a reader, obviously as well, right? Because there's so many roller coasters, and this is reality. So they say truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. And I think, you know, this book really sometimes exemplifies it. And coming to sort of writing memoirs, and, you know, remembering family members. Actually also wrote a book about my grandfather, because he was a very, you know, well known architect that sort of made it from nothing. And he, I really, and he was very vivacious person, and all these stories that he had, so I really wanted to chronicle it was a very special experience for me, so I can only imagine what it must have been like for you to sort of speak about your family in such an in depth way. And there's so many anecdotes as you've been telling me that come in to the story. So out of the family members that have read this book, I'd love to know about you know, their reactions, and we already mentioned a bit of their contributions

Bhawana Ma'am: 17:04

to this book, the younger generation for whom I have actually written it so that it's documented for them, have all ordered the book because it's so easy to order on Amazon now, but I don't think they have all read it as yet, because they are All in high flying jobs, and then they are young parents and juggling time to family and work and exercise routines and all that, travel plans. Most of the siblings are no more, but the siblings, my friends and even strangers whom I don't know, who have read the book and who got my number. Everybody has phoned me crying on the phone, and everybody has said that they have wept. And the last one who called me, she couldn't stop sobbing, and she's not even a friend of mine, and I said, Why are you crying? Are you feeling bad for me or what is it? So she said, I'm crying for the loss that how a robust family eventually shrinks like you said that while other families are rapidly increasing, my family was shrinking. But that's part of life. A robust tree also withers away the leaves and a new tree comes up. That's life. Yeah,

Tara Khandelwal: 18:27

I think, you know, in India, obviously, family is so important. So anyone reading this, you know, and even my grandparents, they had so many siblings, and it was such a large family. My Nani has so many siblings. My daddy has, I think I don't even know how many siblings they have. And my mom and dad each have two siblings each. And now, when it comes to my generation and the next generation after me, people are not even having children, or maybe it's just one child. And I always think, you know, because I grew up in such a large extended family, and that has given me so much resilience in life that what is going to happen now when those families become smaller and smaller,

Bhawana Ma'am: 19:09

they are all going to be emotionally impoverished. It cannot understand the importance of a strong foundation of love, support, trust, transparency, aware of your strengths, weaknesses, your limitations, and as it is, equations change when your parents are no more with each Other. So the I have an insight even about, you know, the present generation of stars, I would say, from the generation of Deepika, Barukh and all because till Rani, Mukherjee, Aishwarya Rai still, they were interacting with the media. What is happening with the present generation is that they are. Controlled by several managers agencies. There is a finance manager, there is a media manager, there is a brand manager. They are isolated, whereas in our time, when in the late 70s, I started, I mean, imagine I've interacted with Rekha in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, in the 2000 2010 2020 we were their confidants, because otherwise, where are they going to have friends? They never went to college,

Tara Khandelwal: 20:32

absolutely. And actually, I wanted to ask you about that part of your life, also, because it was very interesting to see the constant presence of movies and interest in the film industry throughout your family. So you had spoken about your grandfather's film distribution business, and now your relatives were even scandalized that he was attending all these film parties, because, you know, nobody in your community had been involved in that industry. So, you know, I would, I really want to know, you know, where did your interest in the film industry come from? And can you tell a little bit, I'm sure listeners would love to know where, where your decision to become a film journalist has come

Bhawana Ma'am: 21:08

from. You know, Tara, I'm so impressed that you asked me about my paternal grandfather and the distribution because I've interacted with so many journalists after the book has come out, but somehow they seem to have missed this point. In fact, when I got to know about it, I said, oh, so is it that from where it comes to be that the third generation gets it? My paternal grandfather was a film distributor. My father was working in a cinema hall in the military theater. My maternal grandfather dealt in stocks, which was spoken about in hush whispers because stock was not considered respectable. And I had no desire to be a journalist. I had no idol. I had no I had no ambition at all. I didn't even want to be a working woman. But I just, I think, happened to be at the right place at the right time, and I became a film journalist, and when the first time, it was because I was writing in college, and somebody said that, you know, there is a film magazine coming out, why don't you meet this guy? And I said, okay, and he offered me a salary of 100 rupees. And I said to myself, What am I going to do with so much money? And then after that, there was an ad in the paper which said that wanted college girls with a flair for writing, and I went for a walk in interview, and they said, Okay, we are giving you 500 rupees salary. And I said, what is the job about? And they said, it's a film journalist. And I shrugged my shoulders and I said, I don't want to be a film journalist. I was very superior. I shrugged my shoulders and came away. And he hollered at me, and he said, How dare you waste our time? And after that, they made me go through a small test also. So they started calling, and we had a MTNL phone at home like everybody else, and my mother said, Who is this stranger who's calling you? And I said that they're coming out with a magazine, and they think that I have the making of a journalist, and he's giving me a salary of 500 rupees. So my mother said, You don't know anything, and this guy is offering you 500 rupees. He is a pucker fraud. So I told those guys that I'm not going to do it. So he said, Ask your mother. What is the problem? So my mother said you will not meet any of these deadly villains. You will not go for any evening interviews. You will never attend a single party. You will not go out of town. So I told him, 1234, and he said, Okay. So my said, my mother said, now he's 100% fraud, because why would he agree to so many conditions to you then I don't know what happened. I think my parents just felt that. Let her just do it. She doesn't know anything. We know it, and within few months, they will discover and her shock will be over. And the problem with the film fraternity or show businesses, you can struggle all your life. If you don't have it in you, the door, window ventilator will not open for you. And if you have it in you, you can try as hard as you want to leave this place, you just are not able to get out of it. So I thought I will leave it in few months, then a few years, then a decade, and I'm doing it for 50 years.

Tara Khandelwal: 24:34

Wow, such a great story. I just love that. And it happened. And then, you know, that was your calling that was sort of, you know what you said, that if you have it in you, then you won't leave it, and you've stuck by it, and you're one of the most well known names in this space, in India today. And

Bhawana Ma'am: 24:51

I think my calling was that my mother decided to have me in her menopause, which is a miracle. And. Conceive a baby, because I was meant to hand hold her and see through the parents in their sunset years. And after that, I think I got two decades to live my life, which I was denied in my youth. And after that, I think my calling was to write this book, which was so difficult, so difficult. You know, I've not told this to anybody. I'm telling you when the book was ready and I had given it to my agent and the publisher had accepted it, I was haunted by a recurrent dream that I am eight and a half months pregnant and uncomfortable in my bed, unable to shift, and I got very scared with the dream, because I didn't want to be pregnant at my age. And then I googled that, what does the dream signify? And it said, you have to deliver a very expensive gravitas project and you are uncomfortable. So writing about a Hema Marani and an Amitabh Bachchan and maybe a passage or a chapter which they are dissatisfied with is one thing, and putting your family on paper, I think, was an awesome responsibility.

Tara Khandelwal: 26:21

Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is something that is so personal to you. This is, these are your relationships. This is your life. And it's, it's a huge thing that you've put forward, and I think you've done it with a lot of sensitivity, and even the, you know, the small interactions, like when you speak, you know, for example, as in your book, you write about your mother's interactions with the actors, you know. And I really like the story when, you know, one time Shabana Azmi had come and your mother kind of disapproved the cotton saree, antiques, jewelry she was wearing, you know. So these kind of stories I told, you know, they're funny, they're sensitive, and they show that relationship dynamic. So actually, I wanted to ask, you know, what was your sort of favorite anecdote that you have put in this book, and what do you think is the most challenging thing that you've written in this book?

Bhawana Ma'am: 27:10

I think the most challenging was my father coming back because I was so overwhelmed and I felt very bad that I was not there. Also when they are boarding the streamer, when he's trying to board the streamer and there's nobody with him, I just felt that they were extraordinary people who endured so much struggle and never complained. My delicious moments were when my mother gets up in the morning after watching diamonds are forever, and says, Can I speak to Amida Bucha and tell him what kind of films to make? Or Shana, she may go, Shahrukh Khan. Shahrukh Khan, she will. I'll say, okay, here is she'll put on her specs. Then she will walk towards the TV, and I'll say, Oh, he's gone. And she'd say, Why is he jumping around? Why can't he comb his hair and all that, but she was delicious as a personality, and she had her own equations with my actor friends, and they visited her frequently, and she truly believed that they were her personal interactions, which had nothing to do with me, and she had great insights into everybody like you know that Kiran kheir is a bigger star than Anupam kheir, and she would when the Diwali mithais would come home. So she will always want to check out Anil Kapoor's Mitai. And she will say that Sunita Kapoor is a very responsible spouse and knows to keep the stature of her husband and her gift trapping is perfect. You know, she would never wait for me. She would open out whatever she wanted when the first time, Amida Bucha lifted the ban on the media and there were no mobile phones at that time. So he called, and she was hard of hearing, and she used a machine, and she he said, K Bhavna Ji, sebad kar satkawa. And she said, she's at work and whatever. And he said, Okay, please tell her that I had called. And she came back and she told me, and I thought that she was fantasizing, because he was not talking to the media. Why would he ring me up? So I didn't call back. And then he called again, and she he said that apne Bataan. So she said, Mary Beth busy. So she said, aapka number, they go very busy. Film circle number, you know, her importance in her head of her daughter is bigger than the superstar. So she she was completely original. You cannot find another model like her. And I think it came from the fact that how she was brought up in abundance at her maiden home and with so much. Love and caring by her spouse, that she never was deprived of anything. She never looked at having six children in Karachi as a responsibility or something that was bogging her down. The home was like a regiment. There were disciplines, rules. The older siblings trained the middle one, the middle one pre trained the younger ones, and you just grew up carrying bundles of discipline, values, culture, family, everything together.

Tara Khandelwal: 30:33

Sounds like quite an amazing lady, and I feel even she should have been a film journalist or the stories, it reminded me of a scene in the show Masaba. Masaba, where Masaba is investor, calls our home and Masaba is mother, Nina Gupta Ji, answers the phone and she said, No, my daughter is very busy. She cannot come to the phone. That's so funny. It is such a thing that parents do. You know where you know you're the obviously, for them, the child is the most important thing, and the perspective is lost sometimes, and it's it's so funny. I think everybody

Bhawana Ma'am: 31:12

has a story. I saw her discussing some cinema trivia with her sister, and I said, you know, this is a responsible talk. You cannot be talking like this. So she said, No, I have a responsibility. I am the mother of a film scribe, and people expect me to give them information. I have to, I said, Ma, I don't write gossip. I don't discuss them loosely. She's saying I'm not character assassinating him.

Tara Khandelwal: 31:39

I love it and coming back to, you know, treating the subject matter with sensitivity, right? Because that's something that I'm interested in as well. Because we also have people write life stories and biographies. We have an imprinted power where we where we do this, and we, you know, try and capture these stories that otherwise would have been lost. And you've had such an illustrious career, you've written these biographies of these superstars. So I wanted to know, you know, for somebody who's writing biographies, what are some of the tips that you would give,

Bhawana Ma'am: 32:12

I think a biography is as reflective of the biographer, and what kind of a biography I write reflects my character. And I'm somebody who has never delved into sensational journalism, and I'm not interested in personal, intimate details of their romances or private lives which they don't want to share. But, you know, I'm now at a stage Tara where biographies don't interest me at all. I think it's a lot of hard work getting your facts together, and it is not as creative, because you either do it chronologically in a linear or you do it in a different way. I feel, for me, the challenge is going to be that after favel Karachi, what

Tara Khandelwal: 33:01

no definitely, as somebody in the media and content you know today's world, understand how you know difficult the space is and how it's evolving. You know, you said at the very beginning of the book that you had never thought about how your family's displacement must have affected you until your counselor friend asked you what your biggest fear is, and you said, you unknowingly said, not having a roof over my head. And until then, you hadn't processed that fear of not having that right. So I wanted to know, how has this book helped you come to terms with that fear, or was it cathartic? Or is that fear still?

Bhawana Ma'am: 33:36

Yeah, I feel liberated. I now understand my EQ, I now understand, you know, when you are a new journalist, a lot of accusations or epithets are hurled at you, which you don't know whether they are positive or negative, and one of them was that Bhavna is too sensitive. And now I understand that I am what I am, because I'm the recipient of my parents anxiety, and I'm not going to be apologetic about it. That is my decoration in how I write, how I think, and I am suddenly feeling so much more at peace. You know, so many times with my family, if we are driving in a car late at night, and I'm looking always at certain places, and my sister one day asked me, What are you looking for? So I said, No, I'm thinking that if I have to sleep on the road someday, which corner should I be booking for myself. And she said, Are you mad? Are you out of your head? But I was looking all the time for a place in the when I come into my lane, in my fancy building. And then when I told this to that counselor friend, I'm always looking for a place, she did not mock me. She did not laugh at me. She didn't think it was a joke, and she said, That's how deep the displacement is. And I suddenly felt I was given a parachute. I understood and accepted myself, and now I have since then, stopped looking for a place or a roof. Because I have a roof. There are no deprivations.

Tara Khandelwal: 35:26

I think sometimes just naming the thing that we are feeling all the time unconsciously helps us so much in processing, and then that goes away. And I definitely think that, you know, writing personal essays, writing memoirs, and that's why I love that process so much. Really helps us sort things out in our own head, because we are making this narrative, and it is cathartic, definitely. And I've felt that as well. But now coming to something a little lighter, since you've interacted with so many actors, and you know, everybody must be so curious, because these are the superstars that everybody sort of wants to know. So I also have to ask, What has been your favorite interaction with an actor so far?

Bhawana Ma'am: 36:10

There is no one favorite interaction, I think, depending on the phase I was going through on my own path of career, who I interacted with, how it went, they have all been very instrumental in shaping my persona, in understanding life, in understanding show business, in understanding superstars, I think they are as human as you and me, and extremely sensitive and very good judges of people. If you are not a good judge of a person, you cannot be a good actor. And I respect their perspective, even if it is not in my favor. I've had not a very good equation to start with Shara Khan or to start with with Ranveer Singh, but they get resolved over a period of time, and today, Suhana is an upcoming Star, and you realize that you've traveled a long journey. There are so many moments frozen in my heart where nobody told me that I'm not supposed to write it, or don't write this. This is off record. You know it intuitively. It's something that happens to your own sibling. You don't talk about it, even to your best friend. So these are private moments that happen in your workspace, and they help you grow up with bigger dynamics and more special than maybe those who didn't pause and ponder and absorbed. I find you, Tara, in your interaction with me so special and remarkable, we have a tendency to dismiss the youth and think that they are not doing their homework or research before talking to the older people, but just at the start, when technology was irritating me and you said, if you're not up to it, we can do it another time that speaks of such maturity and rising above your own duty hour and commitment to the organization and the questions you ask and the way you go about it, not following a specific questionnaire, allowing me to follow my pastures, and picking up the flowers from there and feeding the fragrance. So it's so special. You are so special. Your parents should feel very good.

Tara Khandelwal: 39:01

Thank you so much. That really means a lot to me. Thank you so much. I just have a few more questions for you, the very short answer questions, mostly about recommendations and things like that, because those are things that our listeners love to know. So one book, apart from your own, about Indian cinema that you've read and loved.

Bhawana Ma'am: 39:23

I've loved so many cinema books, but to pick up one, I don't know if it's a right one, but boski Meghna Gulzar wrote on her father because she became Megna Gulzar. It was brought up by Rupa, and it was a personal portrait of a father who is also a poet and a painter. And it was so wonderful. Check that out. And it was not about boasting. Then there was another one, I think about Sunil that i. Nargis I liked very much. And I'm looking at my bookshelf, I thought the Parveen Babi book that Karishma Upadhyaya, I think her author's name is. When the book came to me, I said, I know everything about Parveen Babi. I don't need to read this book. I read it. So there are many, many books that I like many books I don't like in a non film book, I would say the palace of allusions.

Tara Khandelwal: 40:29

I love that book too,

Bhawana Ma'am: 40:31

yeah, because I'm also a Krishna devotee. Okay,

Tara Khandelwal: 40:35

your first film that you fell in love with that made you fall in love with movies.

Bhawana Ma'am: 40:40

I think Paki, sir, it's still my favorite. It's lyrical in every frame, and Meena Kumaris, pain just pierces my heart.

Tara Khandelwal: 40:51

I will watch that. I don't I have not seen it, but definitely will now. And one book about partition, apart from your own that you've read and loved, yeah,

Bhawana Ma'am: 41:01

about partition, Garam haba. And I would also like to add in this one star, who I've been watching since childhood. The first time I saw Kareena Kapoor, she was, I think, not even two, three years old. She was on the lap of a mother. The year was 1983 you can check her year when she was born, and it was the shooting of Bucha Samandar, Mena, kartu, Marvin ho gaya, uski, bada. I saw Kareena Kapoor when she was 10 years old, and she was accompanying me for a photo shoot of Karishma Kapoor. And she looked gorgeous, black and black eyes, fair skin. And she said, May film is a kitchen, okay. Then I saw her when she was signed for refugee, gorgeous. And after that, I saw her at many movies became I was there for her wedding in Delhi. Then the two babies came, and I recently saw her. Imagine you've seen a child, literally a fat lump child, Babita slap. Babita was exhausted of holding this very chubby baby, and today she is a mother of two chubby babies, and not just a mother. She's working promoting brands, doing great work. Is a fashionista.

Tara Khandelwal: 42:32

That's really cool, that she has that so much self conviction from such a early age. I think having that self assurance really matters in life, because if you don't believe in yourself, who's going to believe in you? And my last question for you is a movie that you and your mother loved watching together.

Bhawana Ma'am: 42:51

We never watched a film together that she liked or something. We must have gone for many movies because that was the latest movie of the week, but a movie that she absolutely loved, and which I make it a point to watch again and again, is navra V Shanta ramsva, as we you know, my mother had this very large scale dreams, not like Garib types theater like my father liked. I didn't get a crush on Raj Kapoor because all the building women, they went to see movies together, and it used to cost 25 Paisa, which was also very tough for them.

Tara Khandelwal: 43:29

Yeah, my grandmom used to love watching konmariga karupathi. I and she never admitted it, but I knew that she had a crush on this expression of the face. So it's sweet. Thank you so much for this interview. I think memoirs really sort of teach us about ourselves. I really love knowing more about you and your family and the work that you've done. So really appreciate your time. Thank

Bhawana Ma'am: 43:59

you. Bless you and congratulations for doing a great journey.

Tara Khandelwal: 44:04

Thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed this episode of Books and Beyond

Michelle D'costa: 44:09

with bound. This podcast is created by bound, a company that helps you grow through story. Find us at bound India on all social media platforms. Tune

Tara Khandelwal: 44:19

in every Wednesday as we peek into the lives and minds of some brilliant authors from India and South Asia, you.