8.2 Puneet Sikka and Nayantara Alva: Finding Love In Unexpected Places, Two New Coming of Age Stories

What do a privileged student with a saviour complex and an ambitious outsider in Bollywood have in common?

Debut authors Nayantara Alva and Puneet Sikka take us into two very different Indias—one set in a liberal arts college, the other on a chaotic film set. 

Tara and Michelle chat with the authors about their writing processes, the themes that shaped their coming-of-age novels, and how they brought their lived experiences to the page. Nayantara unpacks creative burnout, messiness in friendships, and reclaiming self-worth. Puneet explores reinvention, reality TV, and what it means to be seen.

If you’re curious about how authors build layered, complex characters or want a peek behind the scenes of the Indian creative industry, this episode’s for you.

Books, shows and films mentioned in this episode:

• Calling Sehmat - Harinder S. Sikka
• Kimino Nawa
• Women Who Run with the Wolves - Clarissa Pinkola Estés
• The Artist's Way - Julia Cameron
• Fleabag - Phoebe Waller-Bridge
• The Shadow of the Wind - Carlos Ruiz Zafón
• Girl, Woman, Other - Bernardine Evaristo
• Body Kintsugi- Senka Marić

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

Tara Khandelwal: 0:02

Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'm Michelle nicotta, in this podcast, we talk to India's finest authors and uncover the stories. We hide the best written book and dissect how these books shape our lives and world views today. So

Michelle D'costa: 0:20

let's dive in. This episode is part of our branded series with Penguin Random House India. Hi everyone. So

Tara Khandelwal: 0:30

today we're delving into two very interesting stories. Both are coming of age stories. We have a coming of age story set in Bollywood and a coming of age story set in college, and we've got two amazing debut authors with us, Puneet Sika and nantara Violet olwa. So Puneet is a media professional and aspiring actress, and what I really liked about her book, take 2020. Is that she takes us straight into the lives of four struggling actors trying to make it big in Bollywood during the whirlwind of a pandemic. So you have W who's a spot boy, who's fighting to make ends meet Meera, who is newcomer in the big city, landing her first film, Mickey, who is in me too allegations he's a puppet master casting, and Jaish, who's trying to make it big by gaining millions of followers on Tiktok. And what I really liked about these characters is that you really root from for them from the beginning. And also, this is one of the first books that I've actually read on the struggles of Bollywood, so the very refreshing take,

Unknown: 1:36

yeah.

Michelle D'costa: 1:36

And on the other hand, we've got Nayantara Alva, who's actually a TV and OTT producer, she has produced one of the popular shows called Anupama, which I'm sure a lot of you have heard of, and we really loved her book, liberal hearts, which is a funny, sharp and super relatable coming of age story, which is actually set in a liberal arts College in Haryana, and it's actually based on her own experience studying at Ashoka. So it follows the story of NA, who's a confident, privileged, you know, popular party girl. And then you have Veer, who's a hard working student from the local village. And both of these, you know, very interesting characters. They navigate campus life and falling in love. What I really loved about this book is the contrast of college life. It sort of does a deep dive into caste privilege, ambition, but also college parties and overpriced alcohol, right? So I think this is the first book that I've read which is sort of set in a prestigious institution, you know, liberal arts institution in India like Ashoka, you know. So I think both of these books, Puneet and Nayantara, sort of offers a very unique lens into how we grow up. You know, how we adapt into these challenging times. You know, whether it be an entertainment industry or be it the liberal arts world. So welcome, both of you. We're very excited. Thank

Puneet Sikka: 3:01

you for having us here, both of you, and we're so excited. I'm so excited to be part of this podcast, and I'm looking forward to what's to follow.

Nayanthara: 3:10

Yeah, same. Thank you so much. That was very articulate introduction. I couldn't have done it as well.

Tara Khandelwal: 3:18

So yeah, so like, I want to start you know, because both the books have a lot in common. There's a lot about the personal experience, you know, both of you have personal experience when it comes to subjects of your book. So nentara, you know, Michelle already mentioned, we graduated Ashoka in 2019 and what I really liked is that you capture the voice of these college students, you know, so from sort of, like reinventing yourself to crushes and your protagonist, namya, you've said in another interview, is not like you, which I thought was very interesting, because when I was reading and I was like, okay, it must be sort of, you know, modeled on you a little bit. And you wanted to write about somebody who everybody can see a little bit of themselves with So firstly, tell me a little bit about namya. How is she not like you? How she like you? And what did you want to show the world about college life?

Nayanthara: 4:11

So firstly, I would say I don't think like I wasn't writing about Ashoka, per se. I think that I was writing about liberal arts universities in India in general, because I found that setting very fresh, right? Like I thought that it's not just Ashoka. There's Jindal, you know, kriya has also come up. You have Azim Premji, and several others are just like, you know, scattered all around now of late. And there are so many options. And I thought that Ashoka, obviously, the first of its kind was a fresh setting, and there were lots of contrasts that I noticed while I was there and in other places, Jindal as well. It's kind of inspired by both Nami, I think was your resident anxious college student in like, you know this Bucha. Boulevard Educational Institute, where she there is a little bit of everybody in amya, there are elements of me, elements of lots of my friends, elements of people who have just seen and noticed, you know, where you go to any college student who goes to a new place for the first time, and it's the first opportunity you get in your life to reinvent yourself and to, you know, become whoever you want to be, but at the same time dealing with the insecurities of having all these very intelligent people around you, all these good looking people, rich people around you, and you're like, Okay, where do I stand in all of this? Who do I want to be? You know, that whole thing of the new namiya thing, and so obviously, she's 18, so I wouldn't say she's like how I was when I was 18 at all, but she was really interesting to write, because I sort of, you know, she's like an inverted version of me in the sense that all the things that I feel are my biggest strengths, my siblings, my very good relationship with my mom, all of those things, I kind of Just, I said, Okay, what if I didn't have this, right? It was like an activity I did, what if I didn't have this, what would I be like, right? And then when I really got into it, I really got into the character, because I was like, shit, she's so lonely, right? Without these people, and that is how she was born, right through that inversion. And then, of course, I kept building. It was much harder to write Nam than it was to write veer for that reason, because with veer in the first draft, I was like, oh, no, I have to get this right. I can't write from a place of authority here, because, you know, this is a boy from a village, and I'm not a boy from a village, and so that's why I wrote him in third person, because I said, I can't justify being in his head. I don't know what thoughts he would have every day. So now May I wrote in a very casual way. The first time around, I was like, yeah, she's not as important. And then in the second half, I said, Oh, my God, she's so boring. Like, what this girl? She's such a bore. And then I went and I added a lot of a lot more stuff, layered out her relationship with her dad, and got into like, you know, her insecurities, her obsession with true crime, her coping mechanisms, all of that. So yeah, it was really fun. It was like a whole mental activity to get into that character's mind. But yeah, that's about it.

Michelle D'costa: 7:14

And yeah. And I think for me, Nayantara, it was sort of like what I didn't have sort of back then. So I've always wanted to study in the liberal arts, and I've been a commerce student, okay, so, you know. So for me, when I read the book, I was like, Oh, this was probably what it would have been like if I was in a liberal arts college. And, you know, sort of like, I think let's say 10 years, you know. Let's jump ahead from like, 10 years, you know. And now I'm doing an MA in creative writing. I was like, oh, what timing? Like, oh, this is the right timing. So I really, really, sort of enjoyed the way you did that, because I have read campus novels, and especially in Indian writing, you know, in fiction and and it's always, usually the IITs, the IIMs are very science stem driven, you know, sort of background. But I loved how you sort of, you know, created this liberal arts space for us. So, yeah. So I think also Puneet, you know, in your book, you sort of bring these, this sort of, I would say, these nitty gritties of how it means to even, like, join the entertainment industry. What is it like, right? So, we have Meera, who, sort of her life is set in Chennai, right? So, she works for a talent agency. She has a stable job. And you know, she's in love with Raghu, who, who loves her as well. You know, he's also possessive about her. And she lives with party, who's her grandmother, right? And she shares a lovely bond with her, right? So, if you actually zoom out, and if you look at it from far, right, she has it all right? And, you know, she sort of does imagine a life complete with Patti and Raghu, right? It's like a very happy sort of family. But however, if you zoom in, you know, you sort of notice that she's not that happy, right? Why? Because she's sort of drawn to this year of Bollywood. And this is something that I found refreshing, because, you know, you're not showing that she's living in poverty. You're not showing she's struggling. There's no real need, but there is this lure towards Bollywood, right? So I want to know, what were you trying to show through that. So

Puneet Sikka: 9:09

you know, Meera was the first character that I had formed in my head before I wrote, when I was writing, take number 2020, and the rest followed. And the aim of the exercise was that each person is coming from different socio economic, linguistic backgrounds. So there is not one sort of, one person from one demographic. There are people from from different walks of life, and that actually is what constitutes the the the people that that go to Mumbai to become actors. They come from everywhere, you know, from all over the world, actually, and they are there in that little pin code of Aram Nagar, which is the melting pot of casting studios and production houses. So what? But Meera was the first person I crafted. Because. Because I wanted to write a role for myself. And having auditioned in the film industry, I realized a lot of parts for female characters were underwritten, were underwhelming. And, you know, as an actor, you go, you rehearse that script and you do your part, whatever it is, but, you know, I just felt that this is how I would feel more empowered if I wrote my own script, I wrote my own role, and at least see how that goes. And that's how Meera came up. So in certain ways, yes, you know, in the physicality of how I've defined her physicality, and so on and so forth, I just took my own reference because, you know, well, if I was a casting person, I would at least want to cast somebody who looks like the character, so I made her look like me. But other than that, Meera doesn't come from poverty, but Meera comes from a from a middle class family. It's, it's something that we've all seen. We all live as we've all experienced. And this is, this is how we live. You know, we have a most of us or some of us, but I just feel that, you know, when we have the privilege of having a family to begin with, and you know, to have the support of family members, especially when we want to go into an industry which is so uncertain and challenging, and it's it's fraught with its own, you know, complexities. And here is party, who is supporting her decision, but then she is also the only one Mira has, and party has also had that experience. So on the face of it, I started off with giving her that life, that that outlook, because I suppose what I experienced, I wanted to put that onto her, in the sense that in our 20s, we are slightly delusional, not in always the wrong way, but that actually helps us find our way. You know, it's important to be lost in the woods to find our way and to get it's important to be confused in order to find clarity. So she's in that phase where, you know, she's fallen in love, and that's it. You know, everything about that, that she's put that person on a pedestal, and everything is right? There's nothing, it's all, it's all a wonderful world. But that's not how characters would be from start to finish. You know, otherwise, I will not have a story to tell you, and that's true for life as well. You know, it's never straightforward. There is always something. So I suppose it's, it was very similar for Meera as well. So I will not say that she comes from an affluent family or anything. She just comes from a from a regular middle class family, and even, you know, in that party is, you know, has nurtured her, has looked after her from her own savings, from her own earnings, and you know, so she's lived that life where she wants to and she's working a regular job, yes, but in that also, there are so many people who who go to Bombay and they leave stable jobs and they leave a steady income, and it does not matter which background they come from, in terms of, you know, financial strength. So Meera is one of those people. And then, of course, we will the other characters that came in, who can, who can really take that leap without even bothering about it, like Jaish, for instance. So I just wanted to bring in people from different, like I said, different socio economic backgrounds, so that you know that sort of is a sample size of the people who actually are there, and that is something that I experienced. So yes,

Tara Khandelwal: 13:21

I think what you've shown through this character of Mira is, you know, just an everyday person who's so enamored by Bollywood. And we see that I live in Bombay, and, you know, a lot of, even people, sort of from my background, are wanting to make it like it's not just sort of a stereotype of, you know, who wants to make in Bollywood. I think Bollywood is everybody just wants to, sort of, you know, get into it. And if you make it big, then you make it big. And I've definitely seen that personally as well. So I really found the book interesting. One thing I liked is about both the books is that there's a big contrast between, and you've already spoken about this a bit, Puneet, you know, between the characters backgrounds and where they are coming from. So, you know, we've spoken about Mira, but you also have the blue you also have Jaish. And in antara's book, I really like the contrast between Vicky and namya, because namia is this elite college girl. She's from an very elite family, and he is someone who lives in a village. He's a village genius. He's going to crack the cat. He's has aspirations of IAM, but their socio economic backgrounds are very different. And I really like how you portray the difference between the worlds as literally a wall. You know, the village is on the border of Moria college. And this college is espousing these liberal values, but then is also encroaching on the villagers way of life. And you sort of show that bubble. How did you come up with this sort of culture clash, or this love story? You know? How did you What did you want to show through the love story? Of Veera and namya.

Nayanthara: 15:02

So I think that what I wanted to show the device of the wall and the village and the college and all was basically to show how two people from different backgrounds experience the exact same place so differently, right? And even the relationship between VR and his sister, and how, because she's so much younger than him, she looks up to the college so much, and she idolizes all of them, and, you know, she's like making a mother figure out of all of you know the girls who teach her, I thought that how whatever you go through in the past, you know, shapes you, and how we can't let go of that identity of his can't let go of the fact that his family was wronged, and that his father died, and all of this happened because of this college. I just thought that that offered a very fresh perspective on the college, right, how it really burst the bubble, and how exactly which is what I was going for in the end of the first chapter, right? Where you think that, okay, this is where everything ends, and this is your little cocoon and your little world. And then Dharam say, you see, okay, wait, there's somebody out there, and this is what they think of me, right? So I wanted to have that. And in all honesty, when I started writing this book, it was not supposed to be a romance, but then it became really dark and stuff, and I stopped having as much fun writing it, because we was much, you know, much harsher, and he was much more unwilling to let go and let himself like this person and fall for this person. And I was like, now I'm not having fun with this. So I just decided, and it's really funny, because again and again, since the book has come out, everyone is saying it's a romance, it's a romance, it's a romance. But I was going for coming of age drama, like, if I was writing a romance, the beats would have been very different. There would have been a lot more romance in the book, but there are basically just four or five scenes. That's it. So I was what I intended to do with it was to create that contrast, to have those conversations, to, you know, have a relationship between these two people that sort of helps them culminate their own personal arts, their own personal journeys, to go from point A to point B, because they met each other, you know. And so that's what I was going for. And in terms of the village and the college, when I was in college, I did a lot of social work in the village of asavarpur, and I used to actually like how now my teachers, the kids, I used to teach them spoken English. And the first time it really hit me is that every twice a week, the kids used to come to our college. They would come inside for the classes, and then two months in, they said, you know, we want to try something new, and we should go to the village to teach them, you know, like, Why do they always come here? So I said, Yeah, okay. And when I went into the village and I taught the children there, I realized how they are completely different on the other side of the wall, how there are all sorts of undercurrents on the other side of the wall, how none of the girls showed up to class, how the boys, you know, suddenly you could see the cast differences, how suddenly, you know, random elder people were coming and like, pushing these boys and telling them to sit on the floor and making their son sit on the chair, how they weren't letting us speak, and how it was so uncomfortable. And that's when I said that, okay, this is, like, the exact same PIN code is the exact same location, is literally just inside and outside, and the entire body language is different, right? And that is where Shams character was born. You know, in that whole mela sequence, I wrote that because I wanted to show how he loves this college so much, because everyone treats him as equal over there, because they don't know his background, but because the mela is happening in the village, suddenly, all of those rules apply here, despite it being held by more. So it was kind of just a tool to show social dynamics and how they switch depending on who the audience is. So, yeah, that's all,

Tara Khandelwal: 18:49

yeah, no, that's very interesting anecdote, you know, of your time and your experience and how that's come into the book as well. So why also, you know, I was curious, why make veer an IIM aspirant? You know, what was the sort of rationale behind that?

Nayanthara: 19:07

So I think that I wanted to go for a very conventional Indian dream, right? Like I am is something that, like, you know, almost everybody aspires for. It's a much larger dream, you know, people in villages across the countries and small towns, tier threes, they all like, I am is that, you know, it's like I am, I is, you know, becoming a doctor, like, there are certain things, you know, like your IIT, I am dream, right? Which is a very simple Indian dream that a lot of people have, and that I know a lot of people too have and I wanted veer to be that conventional. I wanted him to be that simple, that fixated on this because it's what his dad told him growing up, right? And I thought that that was a very rooted and grounded dream to have, as opposed to this whole liberal arts theme, which is how Michelle was saying earlier, now that everybody always writes about IIT. They write about it because it is, it is the dominant, you know, stream that everybody wants to get into. So that was also like, I was like, okay, a boy like we with a life like he's had he, you know, would, he would be fixated on that because of how his father died, because it was his father's dream. Now, whether, after he goes there, whatever happens. I mean that that depends on his own journey, but at this point in this point of time, that is what he wants, and that's why I wanted to do it. I wanted to contrast, again, the that conventional dream with the non conventional dream of being at a more basically,

Tara Khandelwal: 20:36

okay, got it so interesting, definitely. Um, one thing I really liked about both these books, and actually your backgrounds were very interesting, which you mentioned in the acknowledgements. Firstly, both books are the same editor at Penguin, exactly, and both books also, you know, you both have mentors, so Puneet, you know, your father is hinder Sikka, Sikka, and he wrote calling semad, which was made in turazi, which is, it's one of my favorite movies. I really love that movie, and I've yet to read the book, but it's such an amazing story. I'm sure it's really a best seller, fabulous book. And then Tara, your mother is, you know, the successful Anuja Chohan, who is also a prolific writer, and whose books have also been made into movies. So I wanted to ask you about, you know, your relationship with these, writer parents, writer mentors. How has it been? What did you learn from them, and how does it influence your own writing? Well,

Puneet Sikka: 21:45

you know, it's very interesting, because my father and I, we are, first of all, our writing styles are very different, but, but that is actually coming from the fact that we are very different people and similar in many ways, like I did mention in the acknowledgements, but we my mentor for this book was actually Vinita Zucchi, and my father and I do not get into each other's writing at all, so the only thing that he asked me, would ask me was how many words I've written. So his style of writing was very different from mine. And I said, don't ask me that, because that's that that creates a lot of pressure on my head at the end of the day, I don't want to be churning out the number of words or quantity, you know. It just matters what I've written, how I've written, and this was obviously after the first draft stage, the second, third, fourth draft, multiple drafts, and I have and as far as writing is concerned. In our family, we are all writers. So my mom writes poems, and she's never published them. And we're all inclined towards the arts, towards creativity, towards writing. We've we've all been inclined towards that. And I grew up enjoying the enjoying creative writing, among other things, among other forms of art, as well. And I had never, never envisioned myself to be an author or a writer. And like I said, even this book has come from the from, you know, the desire to create something for myself. And so I this is, I call this an accidental book because I did not, even when I was writing it, it was not intended to be a book. I was writing it as a script for a web series, and so I had written it episodically, and when I started expanding on it, it became a chapter. So it was all very, very organic. So I have, as far as writing is concerned, neither of us are influenced by each other's writing in that sense. And I did not, and not because of anything else, but just that I always felt that this was my path to find. And fortunately, when I had a story, I wrote it, and I had the the absolute luck, serendipitous chat with my friend, which turned into her mentoring me. Vinita, you know, called me one fine day, and she and I talked to each other only twice a year, once on her birthday and once on mine. And it just so happened that, you know, she reached out to me on this one occasion, which was neither of our birthdays, and that's when I thought, hey, why? Why did I not think of her earlier? And by then, I written the first draft. So that's how we started working. So whatever I learned about writing, and I've been a writer most of my professional life, but I've done short form writing, advertising copywriting. I've written, you know, I worked with the news channel and a marketing house, and I was everywhere I was writing, but it was all short form writing. So long form writing was my first draft looked like an advertising copywriters. Each page was a sort of a, you know, small body copy, and then, you know, you have a beginning, middle and end, and it's done. And she said, No, you know, you have to, that's how. And so she hand held me through the process of what book writing is and what building the characters is, and what all of that means. So all of that knowledge has come from working with somebody. Very hands on basis. But what I have learned from my father is that, you know, if you have a story, tell it, don't let anything hold you back from telling that story, no matter how you write, because the writing will come. You have to have the story to begin with. So you have to have the content. And that is something that I have learned from observation, as far as he's concerned. But other than that, I'm glad that, because he's written a book, and now he's written many, he understands the process of what a writer goes through. So I'm very grateful for that, and it helps to have a writer in the family, a published author in the family, who knows that this is what it takes and how you what is it that you what is a goal you're trying to achieve. So, yes, that is, I suppose, the I'm sure

Tara Khandelwal: 25:45

you have a lot to talk about and a lot in common. And I just want to ask the book, since you wrote it as a role for yourself, is, are there talks of film adaptation or OTT adaptation?

Puneet Sikka: 25:56

Yes, yes. In fact. I mean, this is something that was, was the aim from the very beginning. And if you read the book, and you've read the book, it's very visually written, so it's almost as if you're, you're watching it, watching a film. And yes, there are conversations happening with some people already, but it is too soon to say who is going to, you know, come on board. But I do have ideas about it. I'm excited to even probably do the screenwriting for it. So I mean, that will be a new form of writing, no, so that's something that I'm looking forward to as and when it happens, actually,

Nayanthara: 26:30

I think we really have the book to screen thing in common, you know, accidental writers. Because, honestly, I started my career in 2019 and I started working at Star Plus, right straight out of a liberal arts college, I joined stop loss as a producer, as an intern, and then a producer. And what really frustrated me about that industry was how collaborative it constantly is right? Like you see a character particular way, you see a track a particular way, and then last minute, it just becomes something else, right? And there are like 50 people all working on a project together, and so there is no like your creative agency is limited, and it's definitely limited when you're 21 when you're a 21 year old intern. So I think that frustration that built in me, which was like, you know, this is how I would tell a story. This is what I would do. And also just reading those screenplays every day, you know, the drama points the way. They used to shift that very TV style of writing. I was like, Okay, I also wanted, I also want to try something, but how do I do it? What do I do? And after college, I did have that story idea in my head, and I said, like, you know, so I just started writing it in secret, okay? And I didn't know what I was writing, but I was just writing it and building it up. And it was like, like, you know, like a, like, a dopamine hit, like, oh, the power of it. You know, that it's just me and my laptop, and I can write whatever I want and create whatever I want. And it was like, keeping me going. It was keeping me saying I was just it was really, going really well for me in private. And I think I didn't tell my mom about it until I was like, 60,000 words in or something. And then like, like Puneet said, right? They really respect a high word count, right? These seasoned writers. So she had 60,000 words. What have you written? And all and at that point, I was very low, and my mom and we were just sitting and chatting, and I said, I know what I'm doing. And like, you know, this whole TV thing is driving me crazy. I feel like I'm getting brain wrought. And then she said, weren't you writing something? Because I think my brother or somebody had told her. So I said, No, no, I wasn't writing anything. I was like, she'll read it, then she'll roast me after reading it. She has very like, she's my mom has very high standards, and she does not hold back in sharing judgment on things. So at that point, I was so detached from what I'd been writing. I was like, whatever, like, even if she like roasts me for it, I don't care. I have other things going on. So then she asked me, you know what happened to that? You should keep doing that. That'll keep you sane, and you won't get into all of this work stress and all if you have something on the side, it's all about creative control. Because even my mom started writing out of frustration in her job, like when she was, like, in her 30s. So she said, This is what happened to me, also, you can't stop doing it right? And then I said, Yeah, whatever. I don't care about it. It's just like, a dumb project. And then she told me, can I read it? So then I said, Yeah, I read it. I don't care. Then she read it. And then she came and she was like, initially she was like, horrified. In the beginning, something, I don't know what I had written. And then finally she read the whole thing, and she said, No, this. You have to finish this. This is really good. And that's all she had to say, you have to finish this is really good. And then I finished it after that. So I'm saying, I'm saying that. See, I don't think it was as direct like her impact, but I feel I respect her opinion. So. Much, and we have a very solid bond. So the fact that she thought that, you know, it was good enough to actually materialize into something was enough for me. And then I got all excited, because then she said, Oh, you know, this character and that, and this was smartly done, and, oh, that was, that was very corny. And you're like, you know, she got really into it. And then I disagreed with her, and I stood my own and I said, No, I done this on purpose. And like, you know, we had like that writer to write a full Friday discussion for two, three hours in the middle of the night. And then I got all fired up, and I was like, you know, like, I I'll finish this book. And that's when I decided that I would finish it and it would be a book and, and, yeah, so it was very accidental as well, and my mom's role in it has been also, like Puneet said, it really helps to have somebody in the house who has been through it, right, who has been through the whole process, who understands the industry, because it's your first time. And so they really become like a lighthouse for you, you know? And, yeah, that has really been a big blessing. And my mom and I really close, so we, I mean, I roast her for her book. She roast me for my shows. The amount she has roasted me for Anupama is not even for me. But so it keeps happening, and it's fun, like it really helps, because everybody in my house is very creative. I don't live here, but when I come, you know, they're great too. They all read. They all have opinions. My sister. I really respect my sister's opinion, my brother's opinion. They all have very different takes on life, and even my dad. So it's great to have this bunch of creative people who like rip apart every plot point and think a lot about everything and every film they watch. They'll have 50 opinions, and we'll argue about it. So very creative family, right? So it only helps to have those people around to support you. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle D'costa: 31:47

So I think I totally relate with this validation thing. As you said, Nayantara and Puneet like but for me, unlike, unlike you, also, I've not had any, you know, writers in the family, and I think over the years, as I've been writing, there's a self doubt, right, this nagging self doubt that you have. And I think for me, it was amplified. I was very anxious because I had a commerce background. I didn't study writing, so I sort of, you know, tried to reach out to mentors who are already writers, you know, in the industry, so sort of like peers, in a way, and who have, like written before. So one of my mentors is Riya Mukherjee. I'm not sure if you all have read her work, but I love her writing, and we sort of reached out to her online, and we have been in touch all these years, and I remember sort of having this weird phase, sort of like writer's block, kind of thing, where I felt whatever I was writing felt very forced, you know, like it didn't feel like me. It felt very contrived. Then I remember reaching out to her and saying, Hi, do you think I should continue writing? And she's like, Bucha. I'm so disappointed that you ever asked me this question. Never, ever doubt that, but you will have phases where you feel really low and you feel like, Oh no, this writing doesn't make sense, but you should keep at it. So I think for me, it was like a big wake up call. Of course, I need these Wake Up Calls quite open, but so good to have that one person where you can just reach out and say, Hey, I'm going through this. And, you know, just, I think it's a really, it's a blessing to have sort of that, that support system

Nayanthara: 33:10

totally because writing is such a solitary, lonely process, and you get so wrapped up in your head sometimes, and you just need somebody to shake you out of it. And then you go and you do a good job, but like at that particular point, you just need somebody to say, what are you doing? Go and write,

Puneet Sikka: 33:25

and it's fine. And so I think that what, what I found was that, what I realized was that, you know, when I was jamming with Vinita on this, there were more, there were so many occasions. And also I decided to, sort of, from the very get, go, have multiple characters, and to write from each character's perspective was was a nightmare, which I had not prepared myself for. So when I was getting stuck in occasions where how to take the story forward and all of that, it really helped to have somebody who was able to brainstorm with me was who was able to sort of shed light on certain aspects which probably I was not seeing, or I was in the dark about, and that really helped to get that perspective, to get those kind of ideas, and I would think something. And you know, that is why writing really helps. So Vinita and I, kind of, she became my shrink for the for the two years that we were working on together, without realizing, without her wanting to be one. But when I would talk to her, she would, I would say something that, oh, but why wouldn't the character do this? Because I was coming from my worldview, and she said, No, but this is not why this person would do this, you know? And so that sort of back and forth and understanding and sort of delving into each character and their nuances, and why would they what would motivate a person to do something or not do something that sort of helped to have somebody who's a has had their own set of life experiences which are different from my own, and second, that they're able to give me perspective. And so in that process, I realized that there was so lot of things in my subconscious which I had not which i. Had started understanding, and I had started understanding and where the the fault lines were in my own personality, so to speak. And you know that really helped to to If so, your writing is a reflection of who you are in so many ways, especially your journaling right in the characters. Then when you, when you feed into that, you can also detach and you can you can fill it with all sorts of shades of human complexity in nature. But to be able to sit detached from that, and to do it is a process that one needs to arrive at. It is not something that one is no matter what one's parent or sibling or spouse or whatever is achieved in life. That is your process, that is your journey to arrive at, and that does not happen. That's not a hand me down. That is something that you have to arrive at on your own. And that is what I liked about writing this book, that I got my hands dirty with this project, and it it brought me out on the other side, in a in a better shape and form, mentally especially, and emotionally writing for each one of them and and I've always been a very sensitive individual, but to become even more sensitized to the fact that there are other people out there who would look at it, who would look at the same problem with A very, very different take, with a very different solution, and that is absolutely fine. So that is something that I learned along the way writing this book.

Michelle D'costa: 36:29

Wow, that's really, really nice to hear purity. I think it's also like, you know, having that person to even just talk to, like you said, the kind of bond that you developed with Haruhi. Sometimes it's not, not even about the writing. So I remember, I think once one of my close writer friends told me, Michelle, it's okay to take a break live life, because often life is material for writing, or life is fodder for writing. Because I was often in that stage where, you know, I used to feel guilty when I used to not write, like anytime, you know, maybe, let's say I'm just doing something very silly, like listening to music. And then I used to think, oh, but you could be writing at this point, you know. So at that point, I remember, like just having that person tell you it's okay. Sometimes means the world, right? So I want to know a bit about sort of the writing style that you all developed. So for example, Puneet, you know, I really sort of love the structure of the book and and one thing that really stayed with me, honestly, is the opening scene, right? So, so for those who haven't read the book, I just want to sort of cover the opening scene. It sort of reads like a, you know, scene from a horror movie, you know. So Mira goes for an audition, okay, in an empty warehouse, and just when she gets in, she remembers reading about a news of a fake audition, right? And then what happens is a murder of an aspiring actress, and suddenly, now, as a reader, you're seeing her in this empty warehouse, and she's trapped. Now she turns around to escape, but the doors are shut, and, you know, she sort of goes through, you know, the kind of, I would say, rooms, or different sort of staircases, and it's sort of like a maze. But finally she manages to get out, and when she gets out, that's when it looks even more scary, because it's dark, it's deserted, right? It's so scary. As a reader, I was on the edge of my seat, you know, like hoping she stays safe, you know. Now, luckily for her, it was an actual audition. It was not a horror story. Turns out it was, you know, the way you've, you know, pulled off the scene. It's actually like someone's shooting, and she's, she's sort of acting it out, right? So I wanted to know, why did you pick this as your opening scene out of all the things, and was it like the first thing you went to, or did you, like, you know, rewrite it and then come up with it? So there's

Puneet Sikka: 38:32

a very, very interesting, I'm glad you asked this. There's a very interesting story behind it, and there are two reasons for it. One is that this loosely, is based on a on a nightmare I had. So I had, I remember, I was on call with a friend who was, who was traveling internationally. So, you know, we would, we were, we were talking in pockets, and it was later at night. So there was that period of time, the 15 minutes I just knocked off, and I had this dream where I am being chased on the roads of Delhi and in my car, and there's an there's a black SUV behind me, which is chasing me. And I reach a point where I have no escape, but I'm at the I somehow get out of my car. I run down some road and some lane, and I find this, you know, the spiral staircases, which are like brick staircases, and I reach at the right at the top, but there's a door which is locked, there's no way to go further up ahead. And I sit down, and I think this is a nice hiding spot. And then when I look down, I suddenly realize that that person who was chasing me in the car has is just walking up the staircase, and that's when I get the call from my friend, and my eye open, my eyes open, and I'm like, Oh my God. And I just told that to my friend, that I had this very scary dream, and that stayed, and that somehow became a sort of inspiration for this, for this. Little part for Meera. And you know, I mean that that memory has, that memory of that dreams, maybe forget so many dreams, but that somehow stayed because it was just so frightening, and the timing of it was also very strange as to when I get the call and when I wake up from my sleep, and that's just that point where anything can happen, because I see this person walking up the steps. So I wanted to to it was so thrilling in the dream, I thought maybe, you know, I can sort of rehash it and put it for for one of the characters that was one second was that this was not even supposed to be the PROLOG. This was, this was the third chapter. So as I was writing, this happens at some point, you know, I'd written the story in a very linear fashion in the first draft. So it was how you start, how it happens, because that's how it was playing in my head, because that's how I was building the story. Also this in itself, was a standalone part which I could have placed anywhere in the story, and it would not affect the storyline. And I thought, let me, you know, and this was chapter three, and I thought, why not pick this up and put this in the front, in Right, right in the beginning, as a prolog. And so I didn't even change the name of the chapter. I called it Take three. I called it take number three from the very beginning. So I said, you know, just pick it up and put it here, and it'll be so interesting to start from. Take three, you know, from chapter three. And then we go back. So this is how it actually came up. And, of course, that was a brainwave at some point that, you know, let me just lift the chapter and put it as a prolog. But I just felt that that also indicates, in so many ways, you know, how you see a sort of teaser for a web series, what, what? What are you going to expect in the entire series, or in that episode is encapsulated in that starting part before the title comes on, you know? So that is, that is how I felt, that this kind of signifies, this sort of tells you everything that you need to know about this book. It's in the world of films. It's about struggling actors. It's about their challenges. It's about their fears. It's about also smoke and mirrors. So everything plays out like your it's happening for real, but until the director calls cut and you realize that she's actually in a movie. So all of that is a microcosm of what the book is. And when you reach the end of the book, you realize, oh, well, you know, I mean not in the good way. The reader feels played in a way that, oh, wait, wait a second, what just happened, you know? So I thought that that kind of, the PROLOG already tells you what to expect in the rest of the book. So that's how it came up. Yeah, yeah, no, and it was quite perchance, so

Unknown: 42:35

yes, right? No,

Michelle D'costa: 42:36

totally. And I think, and I think, as you said, that you know, sort of that feeling that you wanted to encapsulate. Like I as a leader, felt like this was foreshadowing, right? I knew, like, okay, that is, there is something coming up, and this is, this is sort of like a hint as to what it is. And then mood, I think what it did for me was it was a mood that you set, and I think that was very well done. So in your case, yeah, in your case, Nayantara, what I really write about it is the way you dealt with the inner thoughts of the characters. So that's something I think a lot of writers really struggle with, because, you know, how do you manage the action? How do you manage the interior monolog and all of that? And I think you chose the epistolary angle, which is you've included letters right in the book. You've added a lot of letters from namiya to wheel namia To fool Kumari, her sister. And I think it's quite a challenge to do it well. So I want to know, sort of, why did you pick the form of letters to do this? And sort of, was it like the first choice you went to, or did it sort of come up like in later on crafts?

Nayanthara: 43:36

Well, so I did the letter thing because firstly I wanted to get like, you know, that old school feel. Secondly, the thing, it was no actual character, base, right wheel, would never let his guard down, unless he, like, stumbles upon something that you know allows him to very subtly like so I felt like the only way this character, who, you know, is so switched off emotionally, is so hard wired into his loneliness and into his coping mechanism, that he's not going to break out of that for anybody, I think that the letters were a great way for him to do it little by little. And I felt that if it had been any other way, like if he saw her often, or if he like, you know, he doesn't even use his phone. So I felt that was a very great way to get him to connect with now, man, get him to let his guard down. And because he is very old school, he really didn't, doesn't have anybody to talk to about these things. And, you know, he's touched when he sees how this girl stood up for his sister, you know, and has written the sweet thing to her. So I thought that that was the only way that we could really let his guard down and fall in love, right? And so that the letters were a device for that, where he's like, Yeah, whatever. I'm just writing a letter, but actually he's, like, really into everything that's happening. So that was the reason why I chose that device. There was no other real. Reason, really, I think it was inspired by my best friend who, you know, studied at Wellum, and she in Wellum, it was like a whole thing, and she used to talk about it all the time, like she had all these letters. And we used to read the letters and giggle, because they used to write to their first boyfriends, and then they would sneak it past, you know, they would have these sports fests, and then their friends would, like, sneak it through all of the scary people who worked in the school to get it to the person they were seeing or the person they were flirting with, and that whole old school thing I found very charming. And I read some of those letters, and I was like, Dude, this is such a high quality of letter writing, like, you know, like, and I used to always read it. I used to tell my friend, why were you going for this guy? And this guy was the friend. It should have been the opposite. Look at how bad his letter is. So we used to like, you know, we had all these conversations. And so I thought that it would be fun, that that's where the device came into my head from, because of that conversation with my friend and and I felt like it really fit the character, and we needed to have that. So yeah, that's where it makes

Tara Khandelwal: 46:02

sense. I remember my dad went to doom school, and I remember finding whole box of his letters, and then, like, obviously, like, he gave me permission, and we read them all. I was just so interesting to get, like, a glimpse of his life, you know, as a young guy, and so different. And there were letters to his family and also letters to his friends. So I personally love reading, no, I just, I personally love reading letters, and I hope that that's a format that comes back. So what I liked also about both the books is that the in both the books, the characters end at the cusp of something. It's sort of an open ended, you know, ending which is very unique. And I really like that, because it shows that, you know, there's so much possibility and there's so much more room for these characters to grow. And maybe we see more of these characters, you know, in screen, you know, and then we follow their journey from there. So I wanted to ask you both about that. Nein Taran your book, you know you see Nam, we use evolving relationship and sort of starting on this individual journey of self discovery, the questioning, the values. So how do you see the relationship playing out without spoilers? Yeah, I actually

Nayanthara: 47:19

want to write that Epilog. It wasn't part of the plan. But then my early readers were like, how can you do this to us? You know, like, this is the you're generating that expectation. And so then I really, like, thought about it for a very long time, and I seen this movie, one of my favorite it's an anime film Camino Nava. And I I saw that Camino Nava had such a beautiful ending, and so when I saw that, I thought about that, and I saw that movie again, and I was actually open ended. Is always great. Now I can't, I don't know what will happen with both of them after this. I have my own opinions on that, but I do think which is why I won't write a sequel, but I do think that, I thought that it was like, you know, an open ended ending, for a reason, because I'm not sure they would connect as well the second time around. And I think that we still has a lot more growing to do, particularly, whereas most of numbers growing is pretty much done at the point that they meet again, so I wouldn't comment on where their relationship would go, but I will say that I'm very happy with the ending. I thought it was like a neat little, you know, bow that I ended it with. And I was like, Okay, I made everybody happy, but at the same time, I'm very happy with the way I chose to end it. Initially, I thought that, okay, this is, like, I said. It wasn't supposed to be a romance, right? So it was like, okay, these two people activated these respective character arcs in each other's lives, and now they go their separate ways. But then I wanted to give that little bit of hope in the ending, which is why I added that below. Yeah, it was that simple, nice. Okay,

Michelle D'costa: 48:58

in your case, Puneet, you know, the book, sort of without giving a lot of spoilers. I think the book ends on an open note that we see sort of this gang, you know, discussing their roles in the film, sort of like how audiences have reacted to the film, sort of they are acting and even sort of sharing, like the aftermath of shooting. Like, for example, one of them is like taking therapy sessions because of just how difficult the, you know, the portrayal of the character was so and we're sort of wondering, Okay, where is this going? Now, I wanted to know, why did you leave it this way? And what was your idea of like, you know, for having, like, an open ending like this, you know,

Puneet Sikka: 49:33

towards the end, towards the climax of the story, I was stuck. I did not know how to end it. I did not know what to do with these four characters and what I'd made of their lives till so far, and I had given them enough challenges and issues of their own to deal with, but I did not know how to close it. So I took, I took some time out and not not work on the book. I did other things. I was and I came back to it, to. View it, and that's when I understood that, you know, let's put, let's put the film, what the film industry is most notorious for, in many ways, and put that as the as the way to end it. But like I said, it was not planned. It was something that came up that, you know, I did not want to. I could have gone any which way with these characters. I could have gone really dark with these characters and sort of taken them down some very depressing hell hole and leave them there. But that is where the projection of who I am came into the story, which is that, you know, in at my worst, also there is sometimes there is a little hope, and I feel that is all we have as human beings, and especially during the pandemic, when so much had gone off for so many people. And you know, in so many ways, what was keeping many, many people afloat was hope. And that is something that I wanted to resonate through, to come through the entire script, the entire book, manuscript, let's say manuscript and and I did not want to end it in a way where anybody is left without without any hope, basically. And so I thought that the better way of doing it is to is to play on on the fact that they are actors, and to play on the fact that they are play acting, and that they are living through, through some very, very challenging times amplified by the pandemic. And so towards the end, I just felt that when you mentioned this therapy session, it was very tongue in cheek, to put it for these characters, very, very tongue in cheek. You know, one person who could not speak the English language is suddenly speaking Italian. And then, you know, so all of those things, which, which is what, which is what happens, right? We there's a suspension of disbelief when we're watching a movie, or we look we're watching theater, there is that suspension of disbelief. You believe that those characters, those actors who are real life, people off stage, on stage, they are that, and they will make us believe that, and we will believe that. And we will park everything else, all our notions and sense of realism on the side, when we are watching and list or listening to a story, and we will believe what is being told to us by the Creator. So it was just that. It was just playing with that. And I really enjoyed it, because, again, it came to me in a moment where, which I was not planning for that ending to come through, but it did come through and that. And when I was typing it out, it was coming to me as I was typing it in, in some ways, and it just felt it just felt right. It just felt right. I did not want to intellectualize the ending in any which way. And I just thought that, you know, what if you flip the script towards the end, and what if what you think of each character is, and you've built all of that perception, because I've told you to, I've told you so, and what if that changes? So, you know, we also, as human beings, we tend to get attached to people in life. And as readers, we tend to get attached to characters in books and stories, and then what happens, you know, so it's also a play of understanding our own psychology as readers. So I just felt that that is something that, since I enjoyed very much and I was surprised by as much, I thought that that would be a good, interesting surprise for the reader as well. And who doesn't want a good ending? And by good ending, I don't mean necessarily a happy ending. It can be an open ending. It could even be a sad it could be whatever sort of ending, whatever you want to label it. You can label it, but something that overall gives you a sense of hope and that everything's not the end, unless it really is. So that is how I arrived at the ending, and that is what I wanted to refer to put down on paper. That's lovely.

Tara Khandelwal: 53:49

And you know now virathi, we have so many more questions, but when during the end of the interview, and the one of the reasons that you know why we choose sometimes to interview both two writers together, is because even though every story is unique, some of themes are similar. And it's very interesting to see how those themes, like coming of age, you know, different socio economic backgrounds are explored by different writers. And I think this was really very interesting. And we learned so much about college life and even Bollywood, it was sort of like a deep dive into those worlds which are very, very fascinating. Was So my last question before we move into the rapid fire round both of you is, what is next for you as writers and for you as creative professionals?

Nayanthara: 54:37

It's really funny that, like, you know, Puneet book is also industry based, because my next book is also industry based, so like in the same industry, because I do think that, you know, there are so it's just such a vivid world, and there's just so many different people from so many different backgrounds, and everybody's on a set together, or everyone's in an office together. And how you know your background affects you. Creative process, your creative expectations so much and affects you as a worker who is working on a script. So yeah, so that's definitely something that I'm doing. I won't talk too much about it. But other than that, I am very excited about the year that is to come, because two of my web series are releasing on hot star slash geo star in the next few months. So that's upcoming. And something you've written, no, no, this is like my full time job. I mean, I have written some tracks in one of the shows, but not officially, in my capacity as a producer in the network. But anyway, so that's upcoming. And the funny part about that is that they both are set in colleges. So it's like some college era going on. One is set in like a fictional college somewhere in the outskirts of Maharashtra and the hills, and the other one is set in a Mumbai College, which is like a musical and dance show, and the other one is like a young adult fantasy show. So all of that is upcoming, and then after hopefully, I'm, like, done with colleges for a while, because I'm quite saturated with the whole thing. But yeah, I think that the industry is a fantastic backdrop, you know, for any story, and that's why I really enjoyed this conversation with punita. Now I feel like you have spoiled the book for me, because now I know what the twisting acting, because I would not have seen that coming. I've read a little bit of the book, so yeah, but I'll still read it, because I think that's a fantastic twist worth reading, for sure. So yeah, that's about it. That's what my ear is looking like. I hope to experiment in all forms of writing, and I do plan on doing that in the future, because I really think that the format doesn't matter as much as the I mean, I like experimenting with different formats, right? Like real shorts, for example, is becoming a revolution now in India, and the micro drama format is coming out, which is literally like peddling drugs for the masses. So I think that's very interesting. And other than that, everything like I plan on getting into, everything in my career, whatever I I'm given, I would love to write for different different audiences and different different mediums. So yes, that's about it. That's me. So cool.

Tara Khandelwal: 57:14

I love the enthusiasm. I'm sure that you know, amazing things, that's awesome, that's

Puneet Sikka: 57:19

so exciting. And Tara, I wish you all the best. And I think the more you're writing across medium, is what is what you know. This is something I always say, the the wider your experience, the deeper your creative output, because that's that's as deep as you know. The more exposure you have to life into different forms of life and activity, the deeper you can go into creating the characters you want. So that's incredible. Well, for me, I so I have a company, and I make documentary films on the temples of India, and currently I'm making one on the upcoming Kumbh. So it's, it's lot of madness at this point. So that is, that is what is keeping me going. And I'm very excited about that, because I have, I have a very deep interest in Vedic culture and science, of our ancient science, and I don't think it's, I don't want to call it that. I don't want to call it ancient, because it's very relevant to today's times as well. And in 2021 I had gone to a Gurukul to learn Sanskrit for 40 days. And that really shaped, that really changed a lot of things in how I look at life and how I understand things. And I'm actually not a fiction reader. I've written fiction, but I read mostly non fiction, and my interest lies in very, very hardcore and dense subjects like Sanskrit and Vedic Science and temples and stuff like that. So I mean, that is something which I do not know if I'm going to even write another book. I hope I do, but at this point I really, really want to enjoy and luxuriate in the feeling of having written something and written it well, and having told a story, and to take that story forward. So I want to give this story more legs and give it, give it that medium, the purpose for which I intended to write it in the first place and understand different like how neytara said, understand different forms of writing. So I would, I'm very excited to to screenwrite for adapting this book into screen, onto screen. So that is something I'm looking forward to. Let's see how that happens. Hopefully the next year, the coming year again, Hope is what keeps me going, so in the hope that I'm going to find something to do with it. And so that is one. And then, of course, simultaneously, the documentaries that I'm making and the research that I'm doing on that, so who knows, maybe I will come up with either a story or with a non fiction around this. Subject of temples and culture and all of that language. So I really don't know, and I don't want to fixate on an idea, but like I was talking to a friend that, you know, when you are when your imagination is working for you, it is working for you even in your downtime. It's also working in your time when you're not thinking about what to do next, you know? And so I've already scribbled, like, three story ideas, which I have not expanded on. They're just scribbles. And, you know, if I will, if I will revisit them on another day, I might, I might bin it. But as of now, whenever, as and when something comes up, I just write it down without the intention. And that was, that is what happened with take number 2020, as well. It was not something that came up in during the pandemic. It was, it was an idea which I had been working on for a year, year and a half before I started writing it actually so that story hashed and rehashed. It was, I was writing it as a reality TV show, series where they're real life people, where they're real life characters whom the camera is following. And you know, so I'm just saying that these ideas come as and when as you're living your life. And so take number 2020. Was also not born overnight as an idea. And so the scribbles that I've put down right now, maybe that will become something eventually, who knows? Or maybe not, or maybe something will come out of the other work that I'm doing, which is documentaries. So let's see our fingers crossed, and I hope that so long as we are living and breathing and working, we will, we will keep creating something worthwhile.

Tara Khandelwal: 1:01:39

Can't wait to see the temporal documentary. Sounds very interesting. Yes. And last question for both of you, what are two books that you would like to recommend to our listeners?

Puneet Sikka: 1:01:51

I would say a book that profoundly impacted me was women who run with the wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estee, which is almost like been a study book for me. And the other one that I have really been greatly been helped by, is a workbook is called The Artist's Way by Julie Julia Cameron, which actually helped me eventually come to the point that I can write, even though I've been writing all my life. But like you said, Michelle, the self doubt comes in. It creeps in and, believe it or not, for all the outwardly confidence and for everything now also inwardly, because I've done a lot of work on myself, courtesy this book, but I did not I actually Googled that. Who are the female actors who have written their own roles? Because I somehow needed a reference, very strangely. And I always thought, I, you know, I could be a pioneer in something, and I could do something. And I, you know, we always, we think those things, but sometimes that very, very deep, dark place in ourselves, when we are actually sitting down, we are so, you know, with served out that, let me see if somebody else has done it. And strangely, I did not see a lot of Indian actors in theater. Yes, there are many, but what showed up in Google, top search engine was Phoebe Waller bridge and fleabag. And I said, wow, you know, really, we need more Indian writers and actresses, and we need more people, more women telling their stories and portraying them on screen. So,

Tara Khandelwal: 1:03:24

so yeah, one name that I can think of is Nina Bucha. I think she wrote her own role as well. Definitely. What about you? What? No.

Nayanthara: 1:03:35

So, I mean, I every time people ask me recommend books, I feel stuck because there are so many. But the best book I've read recently in the last year. I read it last year, and was the Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Louisa, for which I feel picked every single mark of what I look for in a book. It was like an epic story, Gothic, you know, lots of twists and turns, beautifully written elements of everything and an overarching love for books, you know, in the middle of it. And so, yeah, that, that's one book that I just really, really love. I like a lot of like, you know, women's literature, like your, you know, the one that wins the award every time. So one of them that I really love, that also won the Booker is girl woman. Other, which I that's one book that I, I really, really loved, and it's basically several stories from the perspective of different women, and, you know, their journeys. It's not short story format, because they're all interwoven with each other. They all know each other. And it's basically one track of their life, and one situation that they overcame or didn't overcome, and how they dealt with it. And I really feel like it, you know, speaks to you as a woman, and gives you a deep insight into all the different types of them in different countries, dealing with family issues, toxic relationships, friendship, female friendship. Yeah. So, yeah. So I would say these two off the top of my head right now. Yeah, nice.

Michelle D'costa: 1:05:04

So I would like to end this with one recommendation of mine. Since you're talking about women and women's stories, Nayantara, I'm reading a novel. It's called body Kintsugi. I'm not sure if you all have read it, but it's a translation, and it's actually written in second person. Like, that's something that I'm very fond of, which is very rare in fashion. It is beautiful. Please read it. If you all can a bit difficult read, because it's about her life, you know, sort of undergoing breast cancer and abandonment from her partner, a long time partner, but beautiful writing. And yeah, I think if you'll get a chance, please do read it. But I think this brings us to the end of the episode, I had a lot of fun speaking to both of you, Puneet and nantha. I really wish, like this conversation could go on and on, because I just feel like there's so much to talk about, right? And both of you are sort of, you know, by coincidence, involved with the same, you know, you know different format, writing, the you know, same industries, all of that. So I think it made for such a fun conversation, but I also learned a lot. So thank you for that.

Puneet Sikka: 1:06:06

Thank you. Thank you so much, Michelle and Tara. It was such a pleasure. And net. Tara, you, you're such a discovery. It was beautiful. And I'm now looking at now, I think I will, I will read liberal arts with with a new perspective knowing you and having heard your stories about it. So

Nayanthara: 1:06:23

thank you so much. I'm very excited to read your book. Now. I bought it organically only because I was like, who was based on the industry, I must do this, and then later, so that she also worked on it, and that, like, you know you so it was actually coincidental.

Tara Khandelwal: 1:06:41

Thing if you, if you're ever in Bombay, let us know.

Nayanthara: 1:06:45

Yeah, definitely would love to

Tara Khandelwal: 1:06:47

catch up. Yeah, would love to catch up with both of you, definitely as well. Hope you enjoy this episode of Books and Beyond with bound. This podcast is created by

Michelle D'costa: 1:06:58

bound, a company that helps you grow through stories. Find us at down India on all social media platforms.

Tara Khandelwal: 1:07:05

Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the lives and minds of some brilliant authors from India and South Asia. You.