6.7 Shatrujeet Nath: Bharat - The Brother Who Never Got His Due

"One fine morning, he's told, 'Your father is dead, your brother's been exiled, so now you have to go and become king"’.

In this episode, Tara and Michelle talk to Shatrujeet Nath, author of the series 'Warlord of Ayodhya'. The series focuses on Bharat - Ram's brother - who was never given a voice in the Ramayana. It tells the story of an untrained, unwilling hero who is thrown into the spotlight and has to face troubles far beyond his imagination. Will he succeed or will he bring doom to his kingdom?

In this exciting partnership series with Jaico Publishing House, we are featuring fascinating new authors every month, writers that captivate the audience and bring forth a revolutionary perspective to Indian literature.

Shatrujeet also talks about how Bharat caught his attention, how he wrote adrenaline-filled battle scenes and how he's excited to conclude his series in an epic revelation from the Ramayana that is sure to stun the reader!

Tune in!

Books and authors mentioned in this episode:

King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table - Roger Lancelyn Green
The Blade Itself - Joe Abercrombie
The Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch
Paolo Bacigalupi
J.R.R. Tolkein
China Miéville

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

Tara Khandelwal  00:03

 Hi everyone. I'm so thrilled today to speak to Chateau de Nath. He's an expert in alternative mythology, and his love for alternative mythos, mythos. His love for alternative alternate is a better word. It's his love for alternate with ology is so much that he quit his career as a journalist to write fiction full time. And we are going to be interviewing today about a series called The Warlord of Ionia. And that has just kept us hooked to our seats. Because guess who is the protagonist? Who's the hero of this book? Rom? No, it's brought up who is roms half brother. And it was such an exciting series, because this is someone who has never been given the limelight before. We only hear stories of Bharat being a loyal brother guilt stricken after his mother Centrum was the original err on the throne to exile. So that Bharat could become the king. But we never really have done a deep dive into who he is his character, his personality. So the book is about, you know, what happens when this untrained, unwilling parent becomes the king. And I absolutely love the characterization of this person.

Michelle D'costa  01:28

Yeah. And what I loved is that he didn't just write one book about birth, but it's a whole volume. It's a whole series where there are three books about it. And today, we are going to actually cover the first two, right. And this journey is not a superficial because it focuses on birth being you know, forced to take on this responsibility of a king, you know, while at the same time grieving his father, the shots dead, right? It's not easy. And at the same time, he's such a dutiful brother that he moves, rounds departure because ROM is sent on exile. And he's faced with all of these strange things happened to the kingdom, you don't know what's gonna happen next. Yeah, and

Tara Khandelwal  02:05

there's magic. And there's the question of you know, these, as Michelle said, stage forces attacking the kingdom. And the second book also tries to establish his legacy, because he has to make all of these risky decisions to face his enemies. So will he be able to overcome all these obstacles and protect his people? Let's find out.

Michelle D'costa  02:25

Welcome.

Shatrujeet Nath  02:30

Yeah. Hi. Hi, there, everyone. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Michelle, for having me over. It's it's certainly having me and birth over MSA. Both of us are definitely looking forward to this conversation. I have a lot to say parrot has a lot to say. What bird has to say I think he'll see through the boats. And Yep. Thank you so much. Absolute pleasure being here.

Michelle D'costa  02:53

Yes, we're really excited. You know. And before we deep dive into the book, and you know, your inspiration behind it, we actually wanted to know more about you. Could you please tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, what led you to Barack? Because we've read that, you know, you've sold ice creams, you've written ad copy, you've worked as a journalist, you know, you've even been an assistant editor the economic times. So how did this happen?

Shatrujeet Nath  03:18

So, yeah, I'm a little bit of a rolling stone that never gathered any moss in that sense. So I've been kind of whenever I need youngsters, who are kind of very angsty about the future. And they tell me that, you know, I'm, I'm 22. And I'm 25. And I haven't really figured out what I want. I tell them chill, it's okay, I figured out what I wanted to do at the age of 40. It's at 40, that I realized that I wanted to become a storyteller. So before that, I was probably just kind of in, you know, a prep zone, you know, advertising and journalism, everything was kind of just preparing me I guess, to, to bring me to the stage where I'm no telling story than enjoying doing what I'm doing. So yeah, it's writing is something that I've been doing for a long time. I've been writing as you said, you know, I started in marketing, I was used to sell ice creams, computer, computer, training, courses, all of that. I forgot that. Marketing was not my thing. Then I got into advertising. I was a copywriter for two years. Three years, perhaps, I realized that was not my thing. And then, of course, I got into journalism, and they're stuck around for about 1012 years. And then I realized maybe that's also not my thing. And then I've got now into writing fiction, and I've stuck around for 14 years, I guess. Finally, I found my thing. So you're very happy being here. That's who I am. The story of Veritas is just something that I was quite intrigued about. It just came out of a conversation that I and a friend of mine were having one fine afternoon sitting at his house. And I think we were talking about mythology and I don't know you know, who said what and how it's I don't remember how we or how I arrived at it. But I found it very fascinating. You know, it just suddenly dawned on me that, you know, when we talk of the Rama, and we say that it's the story of four brothers. But actually, it's the story of only two brothers because it's only ROM and Lakshman, the camera always follows those two brothers, and just completely forgets the other two, till finally, you know, after everything's over wrong, comes back, and he becomes king. And the other two are just, they're just there. And in particular, what I found fascinating about Burr, was that, you know, the whole ramen happens because of him. I mean, it's because he's the inciting incident in that sense. I mean, kk wants her son to become king, which is why she, you know, gets around to go or go into exile and see it as kidnapping and robbing and all of that. So if Katie and Perez hadn't, hadn't wanted, what they wanted, the ramen wouldn't, wouldn't have happened. So I found it quite fascinating that, you know, it's this story happens because of this guy. And, and we know practically nothing about him. And, and, you know, there's been so much methylene told about, about ROM and Luxman and Zika, I thought it'd be interesting to look at a completely different character. And I thought, Yes, I also love the idea of, of, you know, the designated survivor in that sense, in a way. Bharath is a Designated Survivor. Look, he's he's 22. He's a young kid who's growing up in, you know, but never grew up in Iowa. He grew up in KKR, which was his mother's, you know, maternal, you know, Kingdom or whatever, whatever it was, and one fine morning, versus living a carefree life. And then one point morning, he's told that your father is dead. Your elder brother, who was supposed to be king has been sent you to into 14 years of exile. So you have to come to God and become king. And he's like, what? And they say, Yeah, and actually, this has all happened because of your mother. And the guy is like, he has no training, he has no ambitions here. He's absolutely got nothing. He's no, he's actually got no skin in the game. And then he's brought to Aotea. As I said, he's he's never grown up in Iowa. So you know, he's a little distance from the people of Iowa, who are already respectful of him, definitely resentful of his mother, or even suspicious that he might have had a hand in the exile of ROM and, and you know, whatever has happened? How does this guy come to terms with all of this? How does he deal with the rejection of his people? How does he deal with what his mother has done? How does he deal with people who know realize that you know, there's a power vacuum and a Yoda. And everyone wants to capitalize on that? Enemies, friends, allies, everyone wants to you know, do that's typically what happens when you have a power vacuum. And there are people constantly gaslighting him and telling him that you're not as good as your father and your brother. And what is this guy? Do? I thought it was the it would be fascinating to look at this guy's arc, and this guy's journey. So that really what brought me to Yoda. I will. I'm also very fascinated about his relationship with his mother. Because I think that's a huge part of what happens through the 14 years. That's yeah, so I think that's really why but

Michelle D'costa  08:13

yeah, I just I wanted to add that, you know, it's not just the fact that you have written it. I really liked that. Right. And I also read a review online, which says that, you know, you've almost written him as a chatroom, who's his brother would have written, you know, pirate story, which is like a lot with a lot of compassion and a lot of affection. And I think that makes all the difference.

Shatrujeet Nath  08:41

Yes, I think you're right. And I did tell a friend of mine once the general it's interesting that I've actually got a chatroom and a youth Ajit in my story. So it's, you know, the strategy is there through the two names. I got a chat with you then. So yeah, I think so. I did want to come across. I didn't want to look at Garrett as someone who who's forced into a position that he didn't he didn't ask for and how does he you know, crawl out of it, claw out of it, and come out on top. That's really the kind of situation I was looking for. And I wanted to get it's definitely sympathetic obviously, but not just for parrot I was also interested in looking at so actually the series before we come before warlord of a Yoda. I've done this victim of the TV regatta series, which is a full book, we throw fantasy that's that's really fun adventure fantasy kind of stuff. I think what I've done with that was I kept it very, you know, very. It was very family centric in that sense that that story. So I thought that maybe for a change. I do something where I bring in a lot of people who are not necessarily connected to the palace into this story. So for example, you've got a palace investigator. Well, he's he's a palace investigator, but at the end of the day, he's a In the theater, he's a common man. So I kind of brought him into the story. So he's one of the kind of secondary protagonists in the story. So I tried to do a little bit of that. Bring in characters who are probably not from the nobility royalty of, of course, and try to look at it also, from their points of view, how would they view what is happening? So, so I think that's really what I've tried to do with this series. Not just keep it about Hurricane Katrina, but also try and bring in that let's see, I don't know how. Well I have succeeded in doing that. But

Tara Khandelwal  10:32

yeah, that's very fascinating. And I really like the question that you're trying to answer it, like what happens in a power vacuum. And it's such a universal thing, no matter whether you're yoga, or, you know, multinational corporation, power vacuum sort of calls, these sort of like vultures and people trying to manipulate and you brought that out. Really, really well. Do you have any brothers since you know? It's such a brotherly kind of narrative?

Shatrujeet Nath  11:02

Yeah, actually, I do have brothers. But in fact, I'm the youngest of the Lord. And they both ended to me in that sense, and they're quite quite, quite older to me. So we've never had. So our relationship has been quite quite different in that sense. I mean, they've always treated me like a like a kid, brother. I'm obviously the youngest of the Lord. And so I have never actually had to face the kind of, you know, the insecurities, that of comparison. And that's really, I think, what Barack deals with a lot in this in this, and I think he deals with it even today. Because, you know, Ron's shoes are so large, how do you pick those shoes? How do you how do you fill those shoes? So I think that's really the challenge. And, and, and constantly being compared to somebody like Rahm or somebody like Dashrath, who was who was also a king of, of great repute in his time. I think that's, that's really, those are the kinds of insecurities that Darren has to deal with. And at one level, I think those are insecurities that are, that are inside his own head, and probably not. So yeah, they're reinforced by others. But I think those are his insecurities. And he has to overcome them. It's only when his triumph is actually an internal trial. It's only when he's able to get rid of those insecurities that he can actually come out and do what he's supposed to do. And I think there's, there's a, there's a, there's a sequence in the scene in the second book, where Mondavi whose parents wife actually tells him that she says that, you know, you you have to, you have to forget about rum, and that you're an individual in your own right, and you have to, you have to kind of, you know, she basically tells him that look, I mean, he was you're so insecure that when I was expecting our son, you will not hear us, you're not in a you're there, you will take care of you, you're constantly running away from responsibility, you have to embrace that responsibility. And I think that since you know, she kind of, she's a kind of a lodestar for him, in kind of, give giving him direction, all of that kind of stuff. So, yes, yeah. And

Tara Khandelwal  13:11

I really, you know, the way that you've constructed but given that there's not much about him at all, you know, we have so much about ROM and there's really nothing about Bharat so, you know, a lot of the book is also fictionalized, with your own imagination, there's elements of magic, it's, it's really quite amazing how you managed to do that. So in constructing this world of yoga and constructing badass world, personally, how did you do the research and, and sort of, you know, like, a lot of it is fiction is how much of it is also fact? What is the balance between the two?

Shatrujeet Nath  13:46

Yeah, I think that's that's a very good question. For the simple reason that the answer is very simple. Most of it is fiction. Because the reading is so little on pirate. I remember when I got this idea I was I was obviously very excited. So I said, Okay, now let me quickly dig and search and all of that stuff. I spent a good probably five months trying to just figure out what, what is pirate story? And there is practically nothing that's there because Valmiki never wrote about her. And because Valmiki never did, no one else really is ever bothered to, you know, flesh out that character in that sense. So it was, it was both it was it was a challenge, simply because there was practically nothing to go on. But it was also liberating, because it told me that I could take birth wherever I wanted to take I completely free reign. So it was it was nice. I think one of the things that I wanted to do with her was that, you know, our image, the mental image of birth is the Loyal Brother. The Loyal Brother Who, who refuses to sit on the throne, and it just waits for his brother to come back. That's all I really had to go for. What are you Sorry to do as I said, Okay, what does this man and what is his? One of the one of the early things that happened early? Okay, let me let me say that again. One of the things that happened early in the evolution of the plot was that I realized in the Roman kicking kicking, becomes repentant of Scots repenting her act of sending Robin to exile pretty early. I realized that if KK does that, I start losing conflict. I also kind of biopolitics cringe that she would put her foot down and demand so much, and then just give it away because Barrett comes and tells her that you know, you did wrong. I thought that was kind of bizarre. I really think he had thought through her decision very, very, very well. One of the interesting things that you might notice in the telling of my story is that there is no mantra you know, the, in the traditional telling of the Rama and its mantra, the, you know, the, the Darcy Kiki's does you kind of instigates her to act against the shirt and, and demand that birth be made king, I again found it unsatisfactory that we kind of designed to lump all the blame on mantra. I think what it does most is it does take a great disservice. Because take a it takes agency away from kk k k knew what she wanted, she wanted her son to be king. And I think that really is the bedrock of the conflict between her and her. So which is why I decided that KK is not repentant. And that allows me so kinky is very clear, she says that you have to become king. And look, no, ROM is not there. He's not coming back. No, you have to become king. But but it's still refuses to do that. So I thought that that was a great, you know, opportunity for me to play the friction between father and mother. I thought that was a that was a good opportunity, which are which I could play through through the series. Of course, as one of the readers pointed out a couple of weeks ago, in 14 years, you know, it's going to be difficult for you to sustain that, that conflict. And I also do realize as a writer that you know, they also have to reach a point of agreement. And I think that's really what book three is really going to be about. It's about how all these characters come together. And all of that, but, but yes, definitely. But it was I wanted to explore parrot as somebody who was not just a loyal brother. So in fact, people ask me, Why have you named the first book is called rebellion? Is it because you know, there's the rebellion against birth? I said, yes. But it's also parents rebellion against his mother. That's actually what the real rebellion is, you know, the other rebellion is the secondary one. It's this sons rebelling against his mother, and her idea that he became Saint with resurrection, you know, like people talk about resurrection. And, and they think it's about the, you know, the people have disappeared, they're coming back and the resurrection of that. It's actually the resurrection of birth as well, because in book one, he just refuses to be to embrace that. That responsibility, but in Book Two, you can see he starts doing that. He's now just realized that he has, he doesn't have a job. So it's, it's better to resurrection as well, in that sense. Yes, I think that's really what it is. And to answer quickly, your point about about magic. Yeah, I was actually very, very fascinated about, you know, when we go back to our myths, and I remember, there's this lady called, or Shia sitar, she's an expert on drama. And you know, like, she's

Tara Khandelwal  18:44

even who you have.

Shatrujeet Nath  18:49

Right? I'm sure is brilliant. So I had the good fortune of doing our show pretty well. So once I remember we were, we were talking and, you know, you read in mythology, you keep reading about the fact that you know, these are Surahs and rock stars, they they come in, they destroy the jugular of the Rishi. That's all they do. It's not like they come and murder and pillage. They just destroy the uranium. And you're like, that's not particularly offensive. You know why? And why did they keep doing that? So Asha was the one who actually explained and, you know, she spoke about this entire concept of return, or, you know, this cosmic order, and how the year is what kind of maintain Rita or the cosmic order. So what happens is when the assassin rockstars and the evil forces when they destroy the idea, what they do is they pollute the data and destabilize cosmic order. And cosmic order is what is this needed for, you know, the correct cycle of you know, seasons and you know, all good things happen because of cosmic order. So, I love that, that that explanation of you know, the fact that no, why would the surahs and rockstars destroy cosmic order? I mean, destroy the earlier? Yes. So when I started working on this, I knew that I wanted an element of magic. And that's when I thought that Okay, what if, instead of cosmic order, I use the concept of magic. And I say that magic is what it's the, it's the guardians of these sacrificial fires. That's the thing magic. And when and when these fires are affected, magic dips. And magic is what sustains the kind of, you know, these these places, it allows you to, you know, it's a kind of technology enabler in that thing. So I just thought that, you know, it might be good to use magic as an, not just a device, but almost as a character in the story. And you know, what, what the bad guys do or the surahs and rockstars do to destabilize Khosla by destroying the magic, and you know, the sacrificial fires and all of that. So I think I kind of borrowed those core ideas of the year. And by the way, the surahs in production says, destroy that, and use the Broughton magic to kind of kind of contemporize the whole thing. So yeah, that's, that's really,

Michelle D'costa  21:14

ya know, and I'm really glad that you brought up Asha center actually, because I wanted to, you know, just to contextualize it, there are two kinds of writers who, you know, when they attempt to write or rewrite mythology, so there's one called like Asha, someone who is known as a scholar of, you know, the Ramayana. And what she does is she stays as true to the text as possible, right? Because it's a literal translation. Whereas on the other hand, we have writers like you, who are also known as alternate mythology writers who then sort of take this creative liberty and reimagine the story, which is, which is what I think really fascinates me. Because I think, you know, there's a whole world of stories out there right now, right? There's like a boom, you have you know, stories on Ott, you have movies, you have books everywhere. So, you know, for example, when we talk about film, there was a deeper issue, you know, which a lot of people didn't like, for how modern, or how sort of controversial those dialogues were. And, you know, what we also saw was recently on an odd platform, there was a Tamil film on Abu Ronnie, you know, which was recently banned, because it sort of showed, I think, Sita and Rama, who would they were eating non veg, food. So I think it's a very tricky space to be in, you know, because on one hand, we look at ethics for their virtues, we sort of, you know, look up to them. And on the other hand, we are trying to reimagine them, you know, so, you know, as a creative process is something that crosses your mind when you approach these stories, even though we know you have fictionalized, a lot of it, you know, like, for example, about being offensive about staying true to the epic, what are the thoughts that, you know, come across that that you come across?

Shatrujeet Nath  22:44

Yeah, this is again, very valid, particularly in the time that we live in. It's a valid question and an even more valid concern, I think, two things. One is, let's let's tackle the question of thing as true to the, to the source material as possible. So I think there are two ways of looking at it. One is I think every every pillar of mythology, whether it's its its Indian mythology, Persian, Greek, whatever, every teller has probably brought their own interpretation, their own value system, whatever you might call it into their tellings. And, you know, it's again, it's, it could be it's, it could just be a con con concept of context of, of time. So for example, let's let's take the ramen for example. Today, when we get any popular narration of the ramen is bound to have the Lakshman Rekha sequence of Sita being in the heart and Lakshman drawing that you know that Lakshman, Rekha and telling Sita not to step out, we all acknowledge that Valmiki Rahman is the is the Adi cava, which means, technically the overtakes Valmiki is Rama and does not have the electron. The electron mica was created at a much later date, probably by considers, which already tells you that a writer to creative license and brought him fictionalization. Assuming that the original was not fictional, assuming original was not fictional. There is a writer or teller who has already started fictionalizing a tail. So I think what happens is then, I've had arguments with quite a few purist apologists, who have kind of told me in no uncertain terms that I probably do me and people like me, we do mythology a disservice. Bye. Bye, bye. Telling false mythologies, and I found that a little strange because I thought, I thought all mythologies were supposed to be free. Since a fiction, but let's not go there. But my point is that the moment we allow one person to fictionalize, and we accept it, then I think we've opened the door for any amount of fictionalization and reinterpretation. So I'm not averse to fictionalizing ecology, as long as we understand why we are doing. So for example, in my case, it's actually not the story of the Rama. And at all, I'm not even touching the rubberband. I'm not even going to wear Luxman and Sita, Sita and Rama. So I'm actually telling a story, which has never been pulled in that frame. To answer the second part of your question about, you know, what we should be careful about how does one, you know, step on eggshells in that sense. I think given the times we are in and I think it's not just the tense we are in at any point in time, it just needs two people to be angry. And that's that's all. That's all you need. You need to piss off just two people. I think the important thing is, what are we saying? So I think as a storyteller, I'm mindful of the opposite sensitivity of content. I'm aware of the kind of sensibilities that people have. And my intent with the bird series has not been to, to be confrontational. So what I do is, my brother, at the end of the day, is still loyal to my brother, at the end of the day is still waiting for the 14 years of exile to get over. So that rom can come and become king. My parents still insist that it's Ron's place and not mine. So the podcasts are on the throne and not be. So I think in that sense, I'm playing in a zone, which is perfectly safe. Because my telling does not offend anyone. The intent is not to offend anyone. And I again, I think one of the fundamental questions would be, for example, taking in my story she does come across as unrepentant. She comes across as a very powerful character. But I think her questions are valid. Especially her questions, the way she questions her husband. I think there's a line from I think, Facebook, where, you know, when Paris tells her that, you know, you you pick me and and she says that, you know, I have I have only one son, the son has had four, and still he picked only one. And I think that's a very valid way of looking at taking. And I think it's important to understand these characters and where they're coming from. So the idea not to offend, but again, who takes offense? Where when it's not really something that we have complete control over? So we can just hope, right, and hope for the best, I guess?

Tara Khandelwal  27:58

Yeah, absolutely. Would you ever consider playing in the safe zone?

Shatrujeet Nath  28:06

It's a very interesting question. And yes, I might, as long as I find a subject that is exciting, you know, or a character, or a character or a subject that's fascinating, and enough, and I feel passionately about. Yeah, why not? Yeah, definitely. Why not? So for example, a character like Godot coach, for me would be a very fascinating hero to look at. Because, you know, again, it's not traditionally the, the, like, he's the son of being an Iraqi. He's not really pureblood in that sense. So he's not a pure blooded hero. It would be interesting to look at DottoTech as a story in terms of who he is, and look at how he's been kind of marginalized in the telling of the story, because what he does is actually quite epic in the Mahabharata, but somewhere along the way, nobody really cares about that guy, you know, like, so? Yeah, I would I would be as long as I feel passionately about it. Yes. Why not? I mean, yeah, but of course, need to be a little careful. Because given where I am, but

Tara Khandelwal  29:18

yeah, that's, that's really good to know. And it reminds me I saw play, I think last year about she can't be who is a trans character in the Mahabharata, then it was just absolutely, you know, fabulous, to see them given that kind of representation. And these sort of, you know, unknown characters or characters that aren't given that much power, actually, you know, have a whole play and books around them. So, so it's because I love mythology. You know, we all I think I've grown up as, you know, living in India, watching it on TV, watching the movies, reading how much Ithaca tops. So there's an unending appetite for mythology in India and what I really liked about your Book is the relationship dynamics. And you already eliminated for us, you know, the relationship dynamic between Bharata and his mother OKK. And the complicated relationship, then there's the relationship between Bharata Orunmila, who is Lakshmi man's wife, and she is, you know, hesitant, brothers hesitant to face her. Because, you know, she's been left behind by election, and nobody ever talks about that either. And it's because of KKs wishes. And then there's relationship with the father in law. So, out of all these dynamics, you know, apart from the one that we already spoken about with Ben and his mother, which was your favorite? To explore it? Did it change any way of view on relationships?

Shatrujeet Nath  30:46

Yes, I think, for me, I think when I first read that, I had a maternal uncle, and your digit is actually supposed to have been Kiki's brother, I immediately decided that, you know, because, again, as I said, Barack had not grown up in Aotea, he'd spent most of his childhood and adolescence in key care. So I just assumed that his maternal uncle would have had a lot of role to play in shaping who were adults. And I thought it would be interesting for birth and UdG, to almost have a take, then they're not really father and son in that sense. But they both father and son, and also elder brother and younger brother, so but so you can cheat in many ways, is the father and elder brother that birth ever had. So he's a he's a, he's a composite of decimals, and RAM, minus the, the, you know, the, the, the numbers or the halo around them. So I thought you did, it was a very interesting character. And using birth, parents, you know, his adolescence and his growing years and his association with eulogy, I thought that was a very interesting story to tell. I also love the relationship that Barack has with the, with the Stabilo. City, Paula, who's this kind of, you know, the his father's loyal bodyguard, who's now an old man. And Barack has always kind of found validation through this old man because, but it is a great horseman. And so he's He keeps talking about how birth was birth is a great horseman. And so again, silly Paula is a kind of father figure that the parents never had. So I think I think, you know, I found it very fascinating that in the absence of districts, holding hand or guiding hand or whatever it might be, who does Perth turn to as a father figure? And I instinctively believe that it would probably have been used the GTE in the early years. And later, particularly during the course of of the book, you know, that the timeline of the book, it's simpler, because you know, whenever birth is going through a bad face, he usually lines up with Cipolla. And it also helps the, you know, the dog is there. And yeah, because I love dogs. So, the dog is there. So, but I think these, these were relationships that I was quite quite, I liked exploring. And yeah, I've heard that Mondavi, too, for that matter. You know, I think it's, it's a very interesting story. Because, again, nobody really talks about mandovi. Nobody talks about Urmila. Nobody talks about, you know, to the Katie, who are shutter winners, while so I thought it would be interesting to look at what role Mondovi would have, and I realized that probably Mondovi is the kind of she's she gives birth, the kind of stability that he needs. Emotional, you know, she's a nice kind of emotional anchor. And I think she does play that role. In a very limited sort of way so far. Let's see how it kind of progresses in Book Three. But But yeah, but these are these are characters. I've kind of loved exploring relationships, I've loved exploring. So the three here,

Michelle D'costa  34:07

yeah, no, I think these these fictional relationships that you've built, it's sort of made me very curious, you know, about about your own, you know, family dynamics. So for example, even the fact that, you know, we all grew up with these stories, like, you know, the first time I think, for me, one of the stories that really stood out in my childhood was the fact I think that Eklavya right, wanted to learn archery, and he's so so dedicated towards his art that he actually cuts his thumb as, as, you know, Guru adduction. And that's something that, you know, was sort of my entry point to this. I'm really curious to know, you know, what was that entry point for you? Like, sort of, you know, for some of us, it could be grandparents narrating stories, it could be you, you know, reading books, so, could you please share maybe one instance of probably, you know, a dynamic that you've experienced with your family member in relation to these, you know, mates.

Shatrujeet Nath  34:54

So, I think going back, it obviously goes back to childhood and I think it's my mother, who was with us till about a month ago. She's had a big role to play in, in, you know, my love for stories. So she used to always, you know, he had a story for everything virtually. Most mothers do, actually. That way but, but she had a story for everything. And my only introduction to Indian mythology was through her. So she would tell me stories from the Rama and or the Mahabharata. And you know, there'll be some Purana small stories somewhere, it will never be one large overarching story. But I think as I grew older, it was a multitrack, which definitely opened the doors to mythology. I remember some of the earliest mythological books that I had read was probably was probably crescendo, Raja Harishchandra was probably one of the earliest ones and it's a deeply tragic story. I remember being affected by it quite badly. Because I felt so bad for the for the man and you know how the gods test him and why would you test someone who sold so nice and loyalty? Anyway, that's a different story. But I think America definitely brought that out. Amarjit ricotta, Chanda mama, you know, when I was growing up, we had this magazine, this magazine called Chandra mama. And in fact, my introduction to Vikram Aditya who's actually the hero of mine, the regatta series was through Chandra mama, you know, becoming data and stories and all of that kind of stuff. So that's really where my love for mythology kind of took route. But I think the two things and that, really, that I fell in love with legend and mythology. One was the tales of King Arthur, you know, I have this book in Shillong, the legends of King Arthur. And I remember reading King Arthur, and in many ways, actually, the commodity regatta is, is hugely inspired by King Arthur because it's the story of a king and his Council of Nine. So it's like, you know, King Arthur and his, you know, the Knights of the Round Table and all of that, okay. I think that's that's just, you know, the launching ground after that is a completely different story. But King Arthur, I think really opened my eyes to telling an epic tale, and you know, that, Oh, whoa, you can actually tell tale like this, which we're not about Gods. So tell them, you know, we were still, you know, Rama and my birth was all about gods. He was he was probably the first one that told me Whoa, you could tell an epic tale about a human being, I hadn't read the Greek, you know, whether it was, you know, JSON or, you know, I haven't read those yet at that point in time. But King Arthur was one. And then there was this book called, I think it was called the legends of ancient Persia, it was all about restatements of an Eastern Dr. Anzahl, the Whitehead and all of that stuff. So that's really when my fascination for mythology, and it was mythologies that I had not been exposed to. So Persian mythology was so different from, you know, our mythology, but at the same time, you know, so many interesting points of intersection. So that's really where my love for mythology kind of took root. And I've always loved fantasy as as a genre, whether it's Tolkein, or whether it's, you know, I love horror, I love fantasy. These are, these are favorite genres. So I think that's what made me sit down and write metadata and warlord, because there's a lot of fantasy elements that actually weave into this intimate or not, then our mythology doesn't have fantasy, but I just kind of consciously, you know, stuck in more and more fantasy elements into it, because I think it's just cool. Yeah, I

Tara Khandelwal  38:38

think also, there's also growing appetite for, you know, merging the fantasy elements with mythology, you know, like, movies are coming out, and brahmastra all of those things. Because I think, you know, we're getting more exposed to fantasy as a genre. But as you know, it wasn't so prevalent earlier before, especially with OTT movies, all of that. So people are really enjoying that as well. And what about sort of like books that like current books that you know, on mythology or fantasy that you would recommend?

Shatrujeet Nath  39:11

Trying to see mythology, I haven't read pure mythology in a while, so but ology actually. Okay, let me first talk about fantasy because I've been reading quite a bit of fantasy of late so there's this there's this fantastic series by by Joe Abercrombie. The the the first blade Oh, no, the blade itself. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll, I'll get back to you on it. But it's a series by Joe Abercrombie. That's a great series. been reading the series by Scott Lynch The Lies of Locke Lamora, which is a fascinating study. The first book is called The Lies of Locke Lamora series is called the Gentleman Bastards. I think that's what they're called. So it's a great series of books. So that's something in fantasy that of late I've been reading I've been reading some modern fantasy. So there's this author called Paolo Bacigalupi American guy he writes kind of their fantasies but set in a kind of futuristic space. So it's, it's not kind by really, it's closer to, you know, if you if you've heard of China Mobile, it's closer to China Mieville kind of writing so yeah, there's some of the interesting fantasy stuff that I've been reading alternate mythology I don't know how much how much of I think most of it but we are doing right now in India is basically telling mythology the way it was but just you know, kind of telling it in a more exciting way probably. It all goes back to I think what Ashok bankers started with the you know, the the principal Euodia series. I really think that I should banker was the was the one who kind of started this, this movement in in retelling mythology in a cooler way for today's audiences. And again, I think the caveat is retelling mythology in English because I think we've always been telling a mythological stories and retelling mythological stories in the languages, whether it's Marathi, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, Bengali, whatever it is. It's only in English that we've been seeing this thing social bank has started that. And of course, I mean, what's phenomenal with its Shiva trilogy? So I think, again, I don't know how much of it is really alternate in that sense. Because a lot of it, but I guess they are because they do kind of take what we know and kind of build on it in that sense. So yeah, that is Yeah, I don't think I can take the mantle of being the only one who does that.

Tara Khandelwal  41:42

But what you're saying is is right, it is something new that you've done, because it is it usually what happens is, yeah, they make it more exciting with this sort of merging the fantasy element with the mythology, which is

Michelle D'costa  41:57

quite interesting. Yeah. And in fact, like we interviewed Ashok banker, you know, for the fact that his book focused on love lessons in the Mahabharata, right? When people talk about the Mahabharata, they talk about war, they talk about all of this with Rory talks about love. Right? And that was actually a valid question. So it was it was a lot of fun, you know, so, if we, if we talk about, you know, I would say this, either fantasy or mythology, right? What keeps us going, according to me is the action packed scene, right? I mean, every scene has to have action, there's, you know, we weapons as the one fighting someone defending all of that. So for me, in fact, I think, you know, one of the most interesting scenes is when Barack sort of defends himself you know, and you mentioned this when you said that you know, it was the sixth sense we had sort of you know, saved birth you know, there was this point where I think what you call it is a shoe Rekha or dagger which which comes in it's basically aim for the back of his head and what he does is he sort of you know, counter uses a spell to counter you know that that and it's very interesting that whole scene of this battle so I wanted to know for you you know, because you've written almost like three books now on this out of all which was the most entertaining scene for you to write you know, sort of like which which mixes emotion which mixes action and you know, sort of everything

Shatrujeet Nath  43:17

so, yeah, I can I have I have a I have a particular reader in his impugning so he was actually quite disappointed with the second book because he was expecting large scale epic battles and and I'll tell you why. Because if it action is what you know, readers like in fantasy, actually my visa series the four books is just packed with action and fantasy there's just so much of action there are war sequences battle sequences that last five pages six pages, you know, multiple points of view camera angles, all kinds of nonsense I do okay. And readers will like action they completely love that series you know, it's so that's really where I've actually explored action the most. And you can like the kind of, you know, Beast and middle monsters that exists in that series. I still haven't even got there in the city and tried in many ways. very intentionally because I had already done all that with the regatta and got epic scale battles. Epic still monsters, so I didn't want to kind of repeat myself and end up doing the same thing here. So I think the battles in in in the warlord series are a little smaller in scale. Nowhere as close to what is there an invader Garcha but having said that, yes, I I know that you know, the final epic battle in warlord is a big cities action. It's very clear in my head. I'm really very excited about the idea. I really still don't know how I'm going to do it. Because it's extremely fascinating because it ties in to very, very interesting things in their mind, but never connected before. So it's a And I'm like, very, very excited about doing this. I remember when I got this idea, I was like ball, and I went and told my wife, I think I've got the final sequence I've got this is what it is. And she said, how are you going to do it? I said, I have no idea how to do it. But hopefully I'll get there by the end. So yeah, by the end of this year, I shouldn't I should have finished that. But the action sequences that I have enjoyed doing the most, I think more in the visa series, because as I said, you know, those have been the larger set piece action sequences, we we haven't really got really big action sequences get in the warlord series. But yeah, I think what I like about about action is that, as you said, if you like action, it's, it's very visual, how do you make that action visual? In terms of when you write it out? See, I, you know, when I also write for web shows, and movies, so when people ask me, What's the difference between between writing, reading a book and writing a manuscript, good screenplay, I keep telling them that, you know, like, the manuscript as a screenplay is basically be the starting point of, of the journey. I mean, it's basically it's a blueprint, the Manuscript of the Book is the finished final product. So that's, that's how different they are. Right? You know, one is just a roadmap. The other is the whole, you know, scenery, landscape, all of that. So when you write a book, I am the cinematographer, I am the special effects guy, I'm the cameraman, I'm whatever, you know, I have to be everything. Sort of writing those action scenes is great fun. Because, you know, you've got to kind of describe it in such a way that it totally comes alive for the reader and they can see the whole thing, you know, where what is happening, all this kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's good fun. I enjoyed doing that. But it's also exhausting. Because after some time, you realize that, you know, at the end of the day, two people fighting with a sword, how many different ways can you describe that? So I think yeah, it's the challenge is to figure out either new weapons or new new monsters or new magical powers or whatever it is. Because, yeah, I really wonder sometimes those guys who used to write those westerns, you know, whether it was Louis L'Amour, or whoever, how did they write those gunfights? Because at the end of the day, the gunfight is a gunfight, you draw the gun and you shoot and one guy dies. So how do you dramatize it? It's, that's, I think that's really the beauty of writing and the joy of it.

Michelle D'costa  47:20

Yeah, no, I think I really relate to this ginger, seeing your excitement of, you know, sort of, like waiting to write the scene, which helps ghost action is really, really interesting. I call it the eureka moment. You know, like, even for me, for example, like, you know, if there's a story in my head, okay, and, and for me, it happens to me at the most unexpected time. So the other day I was in the beach, you know, just enjoying the view and all of that, all of a sudden, I realized, Oh, this is how I can actually tie it up. And that's when you realize you don't have anything with you to sort of capture that, you know, it's that moment. But I think it's one of the most exciting moments a writer can have. So we read Tara and I are definitely looking forward to reading that scene. Definitely. I'm sure it's something that will be unique, as you said, because it hasn't been you know, those two dots haven't been connected before. Very,

Shatrujeet Nath  48:08

very quickly. I must tell you this, yes, more or less, right. So the the community, we've got a series, like when it was it had been pitched it was it was pitched as a trilogy. But then it ended up being four books, because by the time I reached the end of the second book, I realized that I've got so much story left, I can't do it in one book. So it became four books. So when it had been pitched, I was very excited. And this is in 2013. I had been very excited. And I love the setup all of that. And you know, my publisher loved it. Everything was great. So my publisher told me how it was going to end. And today, I can be honest, I had three potential endings. But very honestly, I was not excited with any of them. But I told him Yeah, sorted. Sorted. I've got the ending. Don't worry. It's all good. First book is out. Second book is out. Third book is out. I'm still not happy. Now my fourth book, this is the last book in ends. I'm still not happy with my ending. I I'm like, Okay, I'll pick the best of the three. But I know that you're just okay. And I'm not going into spoiler territory, but for various reasons. But it so happened that I was at a writing retreat, and I was like, I really needed a break from home. So I, I was in a polybag at a retreat, and I was alone for 28 days. And one evening, I was I started writing the fourth book and I'm still my head is I'm so unhappy with it. I realized something, you know, I see a ray of light, violins ray of light angels, all that stuff happens. And I'm like, oh, whoa, I think it through for about an hour. And then I called my wife who was in Mumbai. I called her and I told her that look, you know But how about this as an indie she took, she's also she, she's an editor. And so she's, she's kind of familiar with the storytelling world. She thought about him, she said, I think this is definitely the best support we've got. And I think it's perfect. So I said, let's sleep on it and see, the next morning, I woke up, and I was as excited about it. And that's actually the ending that we've got now. But the truth is that that came in the seventh year of my writing. And so at one level, I'm almost like, Oh, God, what if I had not got that? Yeah. So that that fear is always there. Thankfully, with warlord that's not there, but followed. I know how it's going to end. I mean, so you know, we know how it's going to end, it's obviously going to end with rom coming back. And that because you know that our mind. But the whole point is, you know, what is that big climactic moment? That's. So that's, that's really what it is. So yeah.

Tara Khandelwal  50:52

And I was gonna ask you that to sort of plot, you know, because you're a trilogy, series writer. You know, do you plot it all in advance? Or are there some things that you know, that you've answered? Or there's some things that come later on? Because it's a lot, I mean, like, over so many years to keep writing, and I think of JK Rowling, and our like, their photos of like, the notes, and the characters, hashes, and all of that and keep all that in your head? Must be quite quite a lot.

Shatrujeet Nath  51:21

It is, yes. Because particularly true in media, even through inborn but more true in the Regatta. There are things that happen in book one are, you know, those are the plants and the payoffs are visible only in book four. So you don't even realize that you know that that plant was there in book one, so that it could make sense in book four. So for readers, it's, it's a great, you know, it's really great for readers, because you realize, oh, you know, when I'd read this six years ago, now, this is how this finally you know, this is the how this is where the this piece falls into the into the puzzle into into the jigsaw puzzle. So I think those plans and payoffs are very important. It could be plot points, it could be character graphs, it could be motifs, whatever it is. Yes. Even in voila, there are a couple of things that are there. Yeah, hopefully, we'll, we'll get there and we'll get them lined up, right? Yes.

Michelle D'costa  52:14

No, I feel like sometimes the loose ends you know, they don't make sense. But when you obviously read the series, they will start to make sense. Okay, so then this brings us to the second last chart on the interview, which is a fun quiz. Okay. I will be giving you three options. You have to pick one. Okay? which you think is the most fun? If you could act in a play, which role would you pick? A Dashrath? B RAM C birth? Dashrath. Okay,

Tara Khandelwal  52:45

interesting.

Michelle D'costa  52:46

Okay, if you could act as a female friend. Sorry. Oh, once a female from Oh yes. If you could act as a female from an epoch which would you pick a K K? B mantra POSTECH is made and who actually you know, poisons Hawaiian sea or Mala who's Dutchman's? Why taking nice, okay, if you could be one conflict that comes in the way of Barack just to test his strength. What would you be a the Rakshasa be Robin see the epidemic that makes people go missing?

Shatrujeet Nath  53:30

Robert Lucas, ultimately, he's the one who's pulling on the strings. So

Michelle D'costa  53:35

yes, okay. All right. So this brings us to the last round of the interview. It is a rapid fire round. And as the name suggests, strategies, you have to be rapid. You can only answer in one word or one sentence. Okay. No thinking about one character from the Ramayana that you think is overrated.

Shatrujeet Nath  54:02

Overrated no thinking times. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's it.

Tara Khandelwal  54:11

Okay, one character from the Ramayana. You would love to have lunch with

Shatrujeet Nath  54:18

humbucker Oh, I think that rebrands Okay, where do you think he'll have me for lunch?

Michelle D'costa  54:27

Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, where do you write

Shatrujeet Nath  54:32

on my bed?

Tara Khandelwal  54:35

One way to cope with writing deadlines.

Shatrujeet Nath  54:40

Ignore them.

Michelle D'costa  54:43

Nice. Okay. What's next? That is apart from the third book in the series.

Shatrujeet Nath  54:49

A contemporary dark psychological thriller. Oh, wow. With a with a woman at its core, because that's one thing that I've not done. So and I'm very Do I know what the story is? So

Tara Khandelwal  55:02

we just interviewed two psychological thriller authors. Yeah, they fascinating to get into their site. Yeah. And

Shatrujeet Nath  55:08

very similar with very strong female female. Something very cool. Who's this? Um, it was Nikki Obadiah. And they were she said that no, you should you should check out. Check them out. Is it is the is the podcast, right? Yes, yes. Okay. I'll take it out after this.

Tara Khandelwal  55:28

Yeah. That brings us to the end of his interview. Thank you so much. I think you've learned a lot about how to merge fantasy with mythology about that. And about your process. So thank you so much. It was really very interesting.

Shatrujeet Nath  55:46

Thank you so much, Tara and Michelle. Yeah, it was an absolute pleasure being here talking to you guys talking about what I love doing the most. Talking about having left a life behind an embrace the new one. So yeah, thanks for the opportunity. And yeah, God bless both of us.