5.25 Nidhi & Reshmi: Active Ageing- Living Life Without a Pause

Does life have to come to a halt once you touch 60? 
Join Michelle and Tara in conversation with Nidhi Chawla and Reshmi Chakraborty about their book ‘Rethink Ageing: Lessons in Ageing from the Older and Bolder Generation’ — a book that challenges the way we think about ageing in India today. What does it mean to age actively, and how can one do it? Can you start afresh once you cross the threshold of 55? And how do you prepare for your second innings? Michelle and Tara find out what options are available to senior citizens in terms of jobs, hobbies and dating! 
Tune in to an enlightening discussion!

Books mentioned in this episode:
You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay


Produced by Aishwarya Jawalgekar
Edit by Kshitij Jadhav

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

00:06

Welcome to Books and Beyond with bound. I'm Tara Candela. I am Michelle D'costa. And in this podcast, we uncover the stories behind some of the best written books of our time, and find out how these books reflect our lives and our society today. So tune in every Wednesday to enter a whole new world with a new author. And a new idea. Yes, and after three years and 2 million listens, we are back with a fall factory season five, with hard hitting questions and life changing books. So let's dive in.

00:44

Hi, everybody, welcome to Books and Beyond. So I was very, very excited because the minute that I got this book, The Thing aging, I wanted to interview the authors. This is such a relevant topic. So today, we are very excited, because we're going to be speaking to the authors of this book called rethink aging lessons in aging from the older and bolder generation. And this is a book that challenges you to think about the way that we are aging right now in India. The authors are needy, chavala, and rich Chakravarthy. So welcome. They are also the founders of silver talkies, which is a community for people who are age 55 Plus, and they offer a social networking forum for people to sort of, you know, engage with, with that sort of, you know, and they're really changing the way sort of the narrative around Old age is being written. So that is what we're going to be finding out today in the episode. Yes. And did you actually know that India will have over 300 million senior citizens by 2050? I did not know that. I found that through the book. And you know, it made me think about so many things like what do we actually do after we turn? 55? Right? Do we just retire and give up on life? Are there other opportunities? Right, so this made me think about retirement in a completely different way? Yeah, I think like, what is so interesting is that, you know, like my parents, both above 60, my grandparents or my grandfather just passed away my gran, I have two grand moms. And you know, as a grandparent grandchild, you really seen them sort of like age, and they are quite inspirational. And these things sort of hit you especially like for kids and grandparents, people entering that age group, these kinds of questions are more pertinent than ever before, because suddenly, you know, your parents are not the young, energetic people that you're used to.

02:34

And they're entering a new phase actually give my dad this book, and try to make him read it, because he had expressed to me that I want to learn singing, you know, so. So there's a lot of questions that came up, personally, as well. I think for both Michelle and I, yeah. So before we sort of like jump at the whole thing. Let's talk a little bit about silver talkies, which is your organization. So tell us a little bit about yourselves how you guys started silver talkies? What was the what was the need that you found for this? And then why did that translate into a book? So yeah, thank you so much. First, Tara and Michelle, for having us here. I think it's a great opportunity. And I've been listening to your podcast and really, really enjoyed listening to them. So thank you so much for making us a part of the series as well. So to answer your first question, Silva talkies actually was not something which I and raised me really thought about or had planned to do it. It's you know, like I think we are live both with the book Hansel or talkies. These things have happened just by chance. So silver talk is actually started way back very early on in 2011. As a very, like a very small concept. We started it off as a blog. Rashmi has a extensive background in journalism she has worked with multiple established media houses I was on pretty much on a sabbatical after having worked with McKinsey and Company had moved to a new city Bangalore from Delhi and had just been a mother to a one and a half year old my daughter was that all that time and I think in the mix of all those things, you know, we were both kind of noticing changes that were happening with our own parents at home, right. So for example, in my case when my father retired, you know, I had this very Garga

04:27

whole idea about retirement and I thought while he had been busy my dad was uh, you know, he was working with deliver good boat as an engineer and he used to work in shifts so we hardly got to see him you know, at best I remember him finding time to teach me Maths, or we sometimes going out you know, bullets but Nagar or India Gate. Those are my childhood memories that I have with him. So, so when he retired, I just had this whole idea that time that he never had you

05:00

It would be all about that. And my retirement gift to him was, you know, a lot of art supplies like domestic like the Stettler pencils and whatnot, sketchbooks and stuff that I bought for him with a very naive assumption, I would call it now because my assumption was that he will have the whole time then the wall now and he would go back with vengeance to pick up things which he could not do. But unfortunately, that's not how it really evolved. You know, so for him, he did dabble with those art supplies for about three, four months. But then after that, he kind of just went back to a very routine to me, which felt like a very mundane way of leading life, which would be about watching TV just going for a walk or or you know, just, again, going out for errands and doing chores in the house or you know, so it was a very regular life except the fact that he was not going to office, nothing had changed, right? Similar story was transpiring in Reshma, his household as well, her father had retired and and she found that he suddenly became very socially isolated a man who was very active, he became very socially isolated. So much so that she started worrying a lot about him, which led her to even geriatricians door and to figure out what was really happening if you needed help, while her mother was, you know, was seeing a change in her own, you know, lifestyle and what her passions were, you know, she was an artist. But once she became an empty nester, she really wanted to pursue her hobby and she was raring to become a second career entrepreneur, she actually

06:36

paints these beautiful dupattas and saris which she sells via Facebook now, right. So these were the very different kinds of experiences never happening. And, you know, which we were noticing in our own households. And when we both wanted to support our own parents and wanted went out looking for opportunities, and this I'm talking about, as I said, way back in 2011, you know, in that decade, there was hardly any work, which was happening around older adults, you know, in fact,

07:05

it was very, very unorganized, it was very spread out there was no media was also not talking about it. And we were both pretty much, you know, stay at home moms that time. And, and we thought, okay, why not be to start doing something in the space. And it excited us because we saw a lot of relevance and an opportunity and a need to talk about the subject. So that's how the idea of silver talkies came by, we started as a blog, the journey kind of evolved and moved on in 2014, we started doing activities and events because we realized that as being online blog, while we were seeing a lot of traction, a lot of people were reading us reaching out to us for ideas and help, we really were not meet making any meaningful impact. Because as we were interacting even with a lot of senior citizens who used to stay in the community, which I and rush me were a part of,

07:59

not be realized that loneliness and isolation and lack of engagement opportunities was something which was a was the real real issue that they were all facing. So while health may be an issue, that is common amongst all of them, right, and then they go to the doctors, they go to specialist to take care of all of it. They have all that available to them. But loneliness and isolation and and opportunities for engagement was something which was missing for everyone. And as I said, there was no work for older adults, it was only for younger adults, right? So 2014 is when we started doing events and engagement activities for seniors. These two we, you know, kind of made ourselves into an exclusive platform only for the 55 Plus, because here our intention, and our understanding was that they would do better they would thrive. Well, you know, if you were to put them in a peer group, a group which had their own, you know, people in the similar age group, right, if you were to put them in a in a mixed group, chances are they would feel very out of place while intergenerational bonding and interactions have a lot of meaning and importance. But for certain things, they do much better when you put them in their peer group. Right. So that's how the whole idea of an exclusive community for 55 Plus came about and silver talkies. Again, you know, we chose a name, which would really reflect that ideology was for silver women, the senior generation, the silver generation and talkies, we really wanted to be their voice and really wanted to

09:38

have that exclusive forum and opportunity for them. So that brought me about and maybe Rashmi can tell you about the book now and I was saying everything happened by chance. So Rashmi can tell you how that happened by chance for us. Thank you Nidhi. And thank you, Tara, and thank you, Michelle, for having us here. It's really wonderful to be here. So the you know,

10:00

Like he was telling you, that is been essentially our journey. And we have also been writing about older adults, we've been working with them in every aspect. So we have had events workshops, we have been writing about them, because we also have a digital magazine that is part of silver talkies. So all of this sort of has given us an understanding of, you know, this whole area around aging and aging in urban India, we'd like to clarify that our focus area, and, you know, the area the book covers is basically around urban India. So it's given us some sort of understanding, or maybe like a, you know, what's the best term put it like a view from the side, very close view from the sides of how it has panned out in India. And we did see this change that has been happening in the in terms of ageing and open India. And there are many factors that have led to this change, you know, it is the Indian family that has is seeing a huge change in the way it is structured, we are no longer joint families, we are largely nuclear families. And because of many reasons, not just because people don't want to be together, you know, it could be because of jobs, it could be education, so many things. And then people's mindsets are also changing. Older adults now want to live very independent lives, they, you know, they are focusing on themselves. So we have seen that shift happening with the people that we have been interacting and working with, we have an arrow, you also see this whole increase in lifespan, we keep reading about it, but it has apparently happened and there is data to prove how lifespans have increased. So multiple factors have led to this change, though. And of course, there has been increase in economic solvency, also in urban areas among many old for many older adults. So they are able to focus on their own needs way more than they were able to earlier. So you could say that without really understanding it at first that we would be seeing this journey. we've sort of seen this over the years. But then the book was never in our mind, we were writing about these things in, you know, digital magazine, and everything when someone from Penguin SHINee does happen to reach out to us, she was looking out for resources for her own parents. And in the process, she came across our website, and she reached out to us. And that was really the, you know, the seeding of the idea. So then we did our research, and we, you know, pitch to Penguin, and then the whole process came about on our own without Chinese prompting, we really don't know if you'd have written a book. But yes, that's how it happened. And I think both of us have also evolved in our journey with silver turkeys, how we look at issues surrounding aging, and how we write about it or talk about it has also seen a change, because obviously because of the work we do. So the book was really our opportunity to bring those ideas together. And most importantly, bring all those voices together. Because if you've gone through the book, it is essentially people's stories, we are not really saying anything, we are basically bringing all the stories together. Older adults themselves are telling us how they have evolved in their you know, as they've grown older, what are the transitions they have undergone? What are the things they have done to ensure that they are eating healthily and actively? So that's essentially

13:47

Yes. And no, just to you know, add to that also aeration, because as you mentioned, there are these people's stories which come across, right, because do you guys have actually covered very interesting data stats from so many interesting people, you know, like psychiatrists, you know, neurosurgeons all of that. I think, for me, the most interesting part of the book was the stories, you know, especially with the people and and for me, one of the stories that stood out was social Gopinath, who actually finished her PhD at 75. It is really inspiring, especially because, you know, I had this dream of doing my PhD, I think when when I was in my 20s. And then as I, you know, just turned 30 I thought, oh, maybe it's too late. Why would I spend seven years doing a PhD because you know, you just keep hearing about how long the process takes. And so Sheila actually started it in her mid 60s. And what I loved about her story is that it was not just that, right, she was also learning how to play bridge, she was learning the stock market, and she even signed up to translate a book into Sanskrit oh my god, like it's just, it's mind blowing. And you know, for all our listeners, like this is not just the only example. This is just one that stood out to me that the book is just full of very interesting stories. And just to add something personal here

15:00

So, you know, this whole retirement topic has been on my mind for a long time, because like Tara said, you know, our parents are growing old. And for me, especially the worry was that because we moved from the Gulf to India, it was for my parents, it was not just the transition of a working life, to move into a retirement phase, but more of even a change of place. You know, so a lot of people ask, well, how are they, you know, accommodating to that, and I just kept worrying about it. And for me, the biggest happiness of the joy is when I see them active, basically, when they keep doing things and your book, really shined light on how it's important to keep ourselves busy, no matter how old, we are in life. So you know, just to, you know, add to that data, which is your favorite story from the Hi, I have to agree, you know, I just loved all of the stories in the book. And it really made me think about sort of, you know, cover my face, it made me think about two of my grand moms. And you know, my grandma, right now she's my daughter, she's 82 years old. And I was always so fascinated by how, you know, she keeps going, she's a frail

16:03

lady, but she is one of the best textile designers right now, I think the world and she has gone on her own right now. She's 82. And she's gone to New York, you know, with a nephew of hers. And she's exhibiting in all these museums all over the world, and I just cannot wrap my head around it, you know, because I've seen physicality. And the fact that, you know, she's just sort of like going all gung goo. When I go visit her every day, she sort of like stitching, she has like, 10 new projects all the time, when so much ambition even led to, and it just makes me think, you know, because when I, when I compare it, my grand grandfather had retired at 75. And the minute he retired, that's, I think, when a lot of that loneliness came in, when he started watching TV, and you know, all of those things when he stopped being active. So just see that, like, what you're saying, you know, is real, and I think all of our lives, and the fact that you know, there are now opportunities, communities, which you guys have outlined in the book, because what I liked also about the book is that, you know, it's not only the stories were also very practical tips, and all of that which are given to but yeah, coming to my favorite story, I think

17:13

there is one story in the spirituality chapter about a lady and her husband were captured by militants, I found that story so fascinating, because by the end of the whole thing, they have actually sort of CO opted the the military as in like the, they're sort of like, managed to, you know, show them compassion and make friends with them, and sort of change the situation. And I found that story so fascinating. Now, the one that I really, really like, is a story of a woman who studied dance therapy at this. And she became a dance therapist in her late 60s, and she does workshops, I found that so amazing, you know, because me and Michelle, were talking about it. And we were like, we we want to do so many things in life, you know, and we're like, oh, we're running out of time. It's too late now. You know, but but this I think this book is not only inspiration for that age group, but also to people like us. So that's what I really like, but what about, you know, you, you both of you have come across so many people and these people are real in your lines. So which stories sort of stand out to be

18:21

very hard to tell, like both the both the examples, you know, all the examples, both of you took our favorites also, in fact, you know, the spin the example you took from the spirituality chapter. That's a very powerful story. It's very goose bumpy. Maybe can tell you a bit more later about it because she interviewed that lady and I think she had goose bumps while she was talking to her. So the thing is, it's very hard to say which story is the one of the, you know, which story is like the closest but, of course, everyone is, you know, impactful and everyone has done something pathbreaking in their own area because being pathbreaking doesn't just mean you're you know, claiming to be running a marathon or climbing the mountain or you have done something huge. There are two stories I want to quickly share. One is person who's, you know, I didn't speak to her because I heard her story from her physiotherapist. And we have named her Mrs. Kay because she's no more so we did not know if you'd have permission to share her whole name. But it's a simple story of someone who said I will choose to remain active till the end of my days no matter what. She didn't have major goals, you know, she didn't say Jackie Baja here, or I want to you know, accomplish 100 Kilometer this thing which is all great, but her simple thing was I need to be able to walk on my own. I need to maintain my mobility till my last days and she asked her physio physiotherapist how she could achieve that and for

20:00

follow whatever guidelines she was given regarding this, to me, that's a very powerful study, because that is the story of many people across India when they're growing older. Mobility is a huge issue. By you know, by the time people are 4048, I'm 48 I have friends who say, Yeah, you know, I started getting knee pain, oh, God, we are we becoming old, we all have these, these are inevitable inevitabilities of age. But for someone who did not really have to the she was, you know, she had the resources to be catered to, by domestic help and everything, but who said I this is how I will live and having that will. And following it through that makes it very powerful. The other one is,

20:45

you know, this lady in Pune, Savary, who actually decided to begin to live in relationship because she met a person who she liked. And none of them wanted to go through the, you know, the other rigors of getting married, and they said, you know, we are old enough, we have done things in life, we have fulfilled our so called responsibilities and this, we want to stay together. We want to enjoy our, you know, life together, and why should we really bother about what people are saying, This is what we want to do. And we'll go ahead and do it. And this is a very middle class person in an extremely middle class locality in Pune. And to have that strength of mind to follow this through is amazing. So these, if I were to pick up, it's very hard, but these two would be, you know, that I'll talk about whether you want to mention yours.

21:37

Ya know, what I mentioned my stories, I actually wanted to say that, you know, while we have encountered many such inspiring stories, like how Tara was just quoting her grandmother's example, I think, whatever seven done, in spite of all that experience that we've had, and all the stories that we have listened to every news story leaves us, you know, still very sharp and started thinking, wow, this can still happen, you know, how is that she's in her 80s. As per you she is frail, but she is actually making the most of her life, even at this age. Right. And I think that resilience and perseverance that many of these older adults exhibit, I think it's very, very inspiring. In fact, for me, the biggest, you know, eye opener was when we started working in this space. And we when we would approach people kind of trying to explain to them what silver talkies was all about, what are we doing? The funniest and the weirdest part for us used to be when people would say, Now okay, I will connect you to another senior in my family or in my network, while they themselves age wise, qualified to be a senior right? So it took us a lot of time to really even understand that it's, it's not the number that matters, when you are talking about it. It's about how you're feeling in your head internally, how you are feeling is all that matters, right? And, and I think that was very, very, very powerful learning, which we have seen kind of coming across to us. In all the stories that we have, you know, even with our current members that we have part of the silver talkies club. Each one is a very shining example of how age is just a simple number. It's about how they are rediscovering themselves in this phase of life when they have more opportunity, more freedom, right? For example, the other day, we had one, you know, we were we had a panel discussion around the book that we were talking about life and death. And we asked like, you know, we had a panel of three. And the question that we asked each one of them was that if you were to find define one ingredient, which makes your life fulfilling and empowering in your 50s, there were very three different answers which came the lady in the group in the panel, Tara Keaney, she said, for me, it's the freedom the time that I have now to take care of myself and do the pursue the activities that I can. For somebody else. It was social networking and his community the power that it gave him. Somebody else said it is about acceptance, you know, moving away from denial about my age, and my you know where I am at. It is about accepting where I am and then moving on from there. Right. So I think that itself has a lot to say about how these older adults are approaching their life now. And just to quickly let you know, I think for me, the most powerful story other than came with our Bapuji is who you said in the spirituality chapter who speaks about the militants. I think that was really that is my favorite too because at the end of it, I actually ended up calling her BZ because she reminded me so much of my own grandmother, the fieriness and everything. So I call her PG now and her story indeed was very powerful and what she says in the end that I am all of 85 and I feel every bit of it and I am very okay with it. You know and

25:00

And, and how she kind of uses the metaphor that how a tree grows, right? It will bear fruit it will bloom right and at the end that fruit will drop. So it's as simple as that approach to life. Right? Just accept it for what it is. So I think those words that she quoted in the end were very, very powerful. And to meet the story of Ragini, Tandy stands out, again, a lot because I think her attitude towards labor, I don't give a damn what you think about me and the opinion on my choices. I will do what I want, because I don't know how many years or how many days I have left in my life to do what I want to do. So in spite of all the, you know, all the brickbats that she received all the all the condemnation that she received after she did that photo shoot, but how she took it on such so headstrong, you know, and went ahead in her way, you know, good doing modeling, then she became part of movies, to me that attitude, and I don't give a damn, it's my life, I will live it my way. I think that, to me is the is the mantra that I would like to live by that. It's my life. That's it. You are nobody to tell me what nobody to dictate about it. Yeah, like, you know, what I found so interesting about the book also, is that

26:19

when we think of old people, typically in India, you know, they have a close relationship with grandparents or parents, even though the structures and the way we live might be changing. But when we think of older people, you think of tradition, we think of people that are very set in their ways.

26:35

So you know, the example of the woman who isn't living or all of these people, sort of, you know, actually tasting freedom was very interesting. And it also made me think it's getting reflected now in our movies, and in our TV shows, as well. So it made me think of recently, last stories had come out with an anthology. And the first story in LA stories was about grandmom. And basically, the story is that the granddaughter is getting married. And the grand mom is telling the granddaughter, you can't get married until you have sex with your fiancee, and you must enjoy it. I really scandalized and you know,

27:16

but it really shows sort of, you know, there is sort of, you know, changing it, but what we also think of older people and what they also think about tradition and the role of tradition. In our lives. I found that part very interesting in the book. Yeah, I think that was your favorite chapter, right? Or the love the dating in the second half. And for me, actually, you know, for me, the second innings chapter, so there's a chapter where, like, you mentioned, all these sorts of different professions that, you know, older people can pursue. And I think that was my favorite, because like my maternal grandmother, I have literally seen her, she's no more, but I had seen her blossom in the second half of her life, you know, in the first half, I she was just, you know, quite subtle, meek person. And also because my granddad was kind of very strict, you know, and I always assumed that that's her personality, and to the shock of like, I got a shock of my life when you're after my granddad passed away. And I just saw a whole different side of her, you know, she started talking more, she started watching all the serials, discussing these stories with us. And then she ran a shop, she maintained the accounts. I was like, Oh, who is this woman? You know, I didn't even know that she could do all these things. And it was just that that is the reason I really love the second inning chapter because a lot of people don't know that there are opportunities for you after retirement, right? Because you do mention certain professions. Like it could be accounting, right? It could be translation projects, it could be teaching, it could be, you know, hobbies that you could turn into ventures like it could even be knitting. Right. So there's this woman that you've mentioned, Jesse Chakraborty, right who 875 started her own venture called the sari show. Thank you. So I'm very curious to know how to find out about these opportunities. And where does one go look for them? If anyone's curious about, you know, starting a second inning, I think you must know, Reshma, who I was telling you about.

29:08

So but you know, Michelle, it's very interesting. You mentioned about your grandmother. In fact, I would love to know more about your grandmother, both your grandmother's actually later, both of us would love to know later.

29:20

My mother also this part of her life, I knew she always painted and she had that artistic belt. But and we did see her starting it even when we were you know, in the later years of our school and everything. But the way she sort of ran with it, as she grew older when she had more time to herself was amazing. And even now in fact, my brother has this joke my brother answer startup and he has this joke. Yeah, I should have you know, she should have been like this startup CEO. She was born in the wrong generation. She's very, she's very, very methodical, even if she has a very limited number of clients.

30:00

because she doesn't want to really take on the load of training anyone she wants to do the painting and everything herself. So she has a very limited number of people. But she's so methodical and so clear. And she follows a certain pattern, and so disciplined in her work, that, you know, we really kind of sometimes keep thinking that, why do we, you know, and she also faces this very often from many people in the extended family who say, but why do you need to do this? She loves sitting at night and painting and innumerable number of people have told her array, why are you hurting your eyes? Why are you You know, I want them using this example to highlight how it's not the older adults who are limiting themselves very often, we are the ones who are limiting them. In our there's so much of subconscious, ageism, that is there. In most of our minds. Nydia, and I have also gone through this right, we are very aware of all these things. Now, because of our work. I'm sure we have been guilty of subconscious, ageism. And probably even now at times, because we really try to limit older adults. And this if they wish to if they wish to see aging is really how you want to, you know, want it to pan out for you. If you wish to be this active person, you want to explore certain areas in your life that you've been interested in, or certain opportunities that you have discovered, nobody should be really trying to limit you by bringing in factors like you know, your like health or anything else. So that is the reason I, you know, asked that story to come back to second career opportunities. Yes, there are multiple things. And while they are there, there is also it is also not that easy to really look at a second innings in India, unlike western countries, we really don't have that kind of structure in place due to changes coming there. There is a Government portal that was launched called Secret, which is, it's a acronym for something,

32:14

which, you know, this is an area that government is also working on. And there are several organizations which are working on second innings. In fact, I last lady to talk about it in a bit because she's more clued into that area than I am. But at the same time, while we were researching this chapter, we came across people who told us the amount of challenges they had faced one was in their own minds, there is a person mentioned in the chapter who worked at a very senior position. And he started with this organization in Bangalore called Hardy copy, which is known for employing seniors. And he was telling us how it was he had to realign himself his mind and say, so that organization basically had this rule that whoever starts on the shop floor has to, you know, do a certain it's part of their training had to be in the servicing area. And he said how difficult it was for him to accept it, that he who had sort of been in leadership positions that was doing this. And then, you know, he obviously realigned himself, he said, I want to be active, I want to earn an income. And this is what, you know, I'll do and he continued to work for the company. So it's a lot of realigning of your own mindset. And also the people around you at the same time, there is the example of an A lady who's a very senior editor, who has not been given opportunities in younger news roles. And she's actually heard somebody tell her that, you know, look at this, she has a head full of gray hair. And she's been told that look at this newsroom. You know, it's full of young people, do you think you'll be able to adapt here? So there are both sides, there are amazing opportunities coming up with the many organizations which are working towards a second career. At the same time, there is also there are also challenges like this, which is, of course, ageism. And we don't have generational diversity as a conversation among corporates, at least, you know, until now, so, yes, multiple areas. So I think just adding on to what he said, so while Yeah, the government did start out that sacred portal, which was looking at second career opportunities, but unfortunately, you know, for reasons not really known to meet clearly, but they had to shut down it's not functional anymore. But having said that, there is definitely you know, there are more organizations who are recognizing this opportunity and and they are working on really putting together their minds on it and see how best can you really utilize the experience and wisdom of seniors and placed them in roles which would, but I think probably the fact of the matter is

35:00

but it's not the traditional roles or the traditional, you know, form of employment, that one would be looking at, you know, these could be contractual, these could be part time these could be could be gig based, you know, project based, because that's where you probably can utilize them the best because today's me is point, I think it is also, you know, a lot to do with also the fact for example, the seniors for in our community, right, they also want their independence to say travel, they also want that time to visit family. So they are also not wanting to be very committed to a full time role. Right. So I think finding that balance between what older adults would want at that age while staying on definitely wanting to stay productive. And for some of them, definitely the motivation may also be money, because not everybody draws a pension or has has their, you know, finances covered. Right, so for them, some of many of them, it is also about finances, right? So I think that change is happening, but it's a very gradual shift. And it would require a mindset change on both sides, from the employer side, and from the employee side, right. So for example, things like the education sector, or the social sector, you may find opportunities more easy to come by, because, you know, it's somehow I think they are kind of, it's very easy to map age, you know, with the kinds of opportunities that these sectors have to offer. But if you were to go to a proper corporate environment, you know, people will will shy away saying, oh, you know, that generation is not as tech savvy, savvy. Right. So a lot of these issues, then come on, and then the time commitment. And then also things about, would you be willing to come to the office every day about says, you know, what kind of adjustment do I want in my lifestyle? So there are a lot of moving parts in that conversation. You know, but then there are definitely some of the simplest examples, I think that we have quoted in the book, which you said, like translation content writing, we do know of many people who are doing that very effectively, as it gives you one small example from somebody from our community who recently you know, she just reached her 70s, she has been a school principal for the longest time, and she was she loves her job, she's been doing it. But then at 70, she consciously decided to kind of finally say, Okay, I am willing to give this up and try something else. Right. And it was a very conscious decision that she took, she spent a lot of time evaluating considering it. But she, when she retired, when she actually gave up her, you know, much loved position as the principal, she actually had a game plan already ready. She knew that she wanted to learn music. As soon as he you know, she gave her post, she's already kind of she enrolled herself in a, you know, career counseling course, because she wants to do since it's related to her sector of education, now she's exploring the opportunity to be a career counselor, she's doing courses around it, right. So she really put a plan in place. So that she, one thing was very clear for her that she did not want to really idle away her time, she didn't really want to, you know, feel bored or have, you know, be without a purpose. So I think so it's an amalgamation of all these different factors, the mindset, the, you know, the sense of purpose, and, of course, the opportunity, which can make, you know, make you make a second career really happen for someone even at that age of that age. I think what you said about ageism, you know, we've all sort of been guilty of that. I had a intern who is 65 years old, and I was so used to having interns were 18, you know, so when this intern sort of joined,

39:03

you know, my first reaction was obviously, you know, like, how come you know, why not to his face, but obviously, like, internally, I was really confused.

39:14

And this was my, this was around 10 years ago, when I myself was only 23. So,

39:21

and he told me that look, I really want to work in publishing. And I've had this corporate career and I want to explore this. And I actually, you know, really found that quite amazing that because there's so many barriers, as you said, right.

39:37

And also like the ego barrier, having had such an illustrious career and then coming into work under a 23 year old as an intern.

39:45

So all of those things, and I think, definitely, you know, we have to be a lot more accepting, and hopefully there are way more opportunities, you know, because there are a lot of moving parts for sure. What I really liked about the book is also that the way that it's

40:00

structured. So it's divided into, you know, there's a chapter on fitness, the chapter on spirituality, there's a chapter on finding love. Later on life, there's, there's we spoke about finding your career, you know, changing your career.

40:15

So there's so many different aspects that you will cover. And I really like the fact that it's not only the stories, which we've spoken about extensively, but it is also that, you know, you've interviewed, you know, people who are offering seniors

40:28

roles to play, there's a portal called 60 Plus jobs. You speak to, you know, a matchmaker, who was matchmaking these emails, psychiatrists, NGOs, there's a whole ecosystem, which I find very heartening that we can plug into, but I did want to touch upon the fact that,

40:48

you know, firstly, like, obviously, this is, you mentioned before, this is a very open sort of setting that we're operating in, where only a few times of people might even have access to these resources that you will have, outline. And second thing is that the experience of old age itself is so varied right? 55 to, you know, there are centenarians, you know, 100, that's any big sort of range. So how did you sort of, you know, try to address that in the book in any way or, you know, sort of,

41:20

you know, take those experience those varied experiences, and also include them.

41:26

You know, one of the things that, so, to come back to the book, first, the reason we have the chapters, the way we have them is because the book is based on the various principles of active aging, which is a who defined concept that, you know, allows you to maintain, develop and maintain your functional abilities across various wellbeing markers, into your, you know, well into your later years. And these are not just physical markers, these are emotional, your social, spiritual, environmental, multiple things. So the chapter, those are all based on that vocational. So the second the next chapter we vocational spirituality, then there's a chapter on aging in place, that would be the environmental one. So this is the base of the book. One of the things we wanted to know aging pans out differently for everybody, even within the urban, even if we look at urban India, middle to upper middle class, will you within that also, it pans out differently for everyone based on their you know, socioeconomic status based on the various factors, all these, you know, all these activating factors, all these well being markers that we spoke about. So it pans out all differently. So we wanted to bring in,

42:43

you know, various aspects of it, not just the positive, positive aspect, not everyone, you know, like maybe just mentioned, the member of ours, that that person is a true activator. And and Her Circumstances, the environment she lives in also enables that her own mindset. But not everyone has that really in place. So which is why we brought out examples from everywhere. So one of the examples we have in the book is of this couple called the love artist who actually petitioned for euthanasia, it made big news at that time. And both of us happen to be at this event called good pitch, where their experience was being, you know, pitched for a documentary. And we had a little very brief interaction with them. And we had an interaction with the filmmaker who was trying to bring their story forward. And it was such an eye opener, you know, again, they're urban elders, they're in Bombay, but they do not see anything left to live for,

43:47

in terms of, you know, how circumstances have been there for them in terms of, you know, how aging has panned out for them, they haven't, they don't really see any value in it, or they, they don't really see anything left for them to continue living. So at the same time, and you know, we have stories of all these people who are gung ho someone who's getting who's getting a PhD at 75 Someone is who's getting our dance therapy thing at, you know, after retirement, education in dance therapy. So, it all really varies depending on your, you know, on on your factors. We also have, you know, in the mental health chapter, we try to bring out both sides of the story there are there is somebody who is really grappling with a mental health condition, and there is someone who has accepted it and he is actually talking to us about it, that this is what I discovered and there is you know, no shame and and and this is the help I'm getting. So, really, it is, there is no one of the things that we hope would be a takeaway from the book is that there is no one visual to AJ

45:00

It has multiple visuals and how people choose to, you know, you can enable and empower, you can bring in facilities that, you know, enable all these things enable people to empower themselves and enable people to equip themselves. But at the end of the day, you cannot really put it under one umbrella. There are multiple things that, you know, aging is dependent on, including the individual's mindset, self. Yeah, totally, I actually like that balance, sort of, like I was telling Todd also, like, why you see a lot of people blossoming and, and especially in this hustle culture that because, you know, we as people in our 30s See on on social media, and everywhere, everyone's out there doing their best. And that is just amazing to see that also, you can do that later on in life, right. But you also have the other side of the story where people do not have anything to look out for. But there was one thing that I there was a lack of, you know, constant thought that I had by reading is I feel that, you know, caregivers are not given enough exposure in our, in our society, you know, because I from experience, so my auntie, she spent most of her life looking after old people, right? So it's been like, you know, her parents, and it's been her in laws. And it's like, never, it's this never ending cycle. And I feel really, really bad for and I often wonder, you know, because as a country, obviously, you know, things can get better infrastructure can get better, there are a lot of support stuff that can get better, but was something that crossed your mind while you're wrote the book was caregiving a part of it? While I know that yes, the focus is on, you know, the older people, but was that something that came across? Because I do think that this is something which is a very common factor where parents live with you, and then you become the caregiver?

46:43

So, yes, this did come across. But one of the reasons and it's a very important aspect,

46:50

the sandwich generation is a real thing. Just among our members within the silver talkies community, we know so many people who themselves are in their 60s, late 60s 70s, and who are caring for Super seniors in the family.

47:06

So yes, it did come across. But one of the reasons we didn't focus on it in this book is because the premise was slightly different. What we focused on in fact, since this has come up,

47:18

one of the things we focused on is how, you know, you may be going through a certain life experience and experience as a caregiver. But at the same time, it's possible to look forward and deal with things later. So we have one story right at the beginning of the book, she's a member of ours, Shakuntala py, who was a caregiver for 25 years. In fact, her mother lived up to be a centenarian. And she cared for three super seniors in her house. And she actually, you know, once her caregiving duties came to an end, she herself was in her 70s. And she didn't say, Now is the time for me to put my feet up and sit, I have done enough all my life, she actually took off and she's trained, she discovered a love for art, and she trained herself. And even now, because she's a member of us, we get to see her work very often. She trained herself in multiple forms of art, and this was all during the pandemic, through various YouTube tutorials. And then she also recently got an opportunity to be part of a one act play. And very recently, she told me that now acting is the, you know, the area, she wants to explore theater and acting. So, all these and at the same time, she's not, you know, she's never resentful of her caregiving years. But that's a very, very, very difficult balance to achieve. She, she did not lose, it did not, you know, don't make her lose any of her personal aspirations or faith in life, we have to put it in a cliched way. And that story,

49:02

to me personally, and I think to many of us is one that show was that, you know, again, the different facets of aging, one is where you may have to deal with certain things, certain issues, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that there is an end to your own aspirations, you can take them up anytime in life. So, just to quickly bring in something there are many areas that actually we have not been able to cover in this book, because the scope was towards covering you know, the more active aging the you know, the various factors that make for active aging. But there is so much to talk about aging in India. In fact, the conversation is just starting, but there are so many aspects of it that

49:50

you know, we really haven't explored and we would love to if given a chance. Let me I just wanted to add also another perspective here like I think it is also somebody

50:00

example I have seen my mom also being a caregiver to my grandmother, right my mother grandmother lived on to up till her age of 97. And I knew and I think the last six months of her life was when she really need an active care caregiving and I've seen my mom go through it and even suffer through it because there was so much of burden of expectations from extended family members, you know, everybody coming in asking my mom for not being enough or for not doing enough right and that is reality right.

50:28

You know, that age generation, you know, that generation of our own parents probably accepted it as a given that they have to take care of their old family members, right it is something which came very naturally to them and which was kind of considered and accepted as a part of their role and responsibility, which they have to go through right. So, while they may have found it very difficult and indefinitely, support was not something which was as readily available as it is probably today, because you have many new ventures especially give you a homecare attendance and facilities like that. So it was very active and accepted norm, you know, and many times you will not even have family members who would probably share that burden with you. So you may be your sole caregiver who had to really be taking care of it all. So, you know, so it's a very personal life story. There right. Now, a couple of examples which come to my mind, from our own club members, we have seen up close in person, right, you know, there are two stereo stories like one of our members, she was a caregiver to her mother for a decade. And her mother was a, you know, person with dementia. And dementia is no easy, you know, situation to tackle with, right. And that whole situation, kind of had this lady give up her job, she became very introverted, she lost her social circle and everything there. And we met her a few on few occasions and at some events and stuff. But when we started out silver talkies club, she was among the first few members to join by because by then her mother had passed on and and she, you know, was kind of free of that caregiving responsibility. But her reason for becoming a member was that I have really lost my ability to be social.

52:20

And I would like to find it again. And that's why she chose to be a member. Right. Similarly, another, another member of ours, you know, she joined us when she was a caregiver to her husband, who also had dementia. She was an active caregiver when she met us. In her case, she was a very social person, already, she had a lot of friends, she would very, you know, often need and she had activities to keep herself engaged. But then her kids were very, you know, kind of very aware has her son is very involved in her, you know, in her whole journey, and it's very responsible, takes care of a lot of things for her. So I think to a conversation that the son was having with a psychologist, friend, he was advised that, you know, whatever said and done, your mom may be a caregiver, but you need to take care of your mother. Right? While she is taking care of your father, you need to take care of your mother. And she advised him that, you know, you should be taking on the role where you encourage her to really take care of herself. And I think through that conversation, she found silver talkies club and she was one of our early members who joined us in 2018. The husband passed, you know, passed on a few years later, and she's still a member. And she herself now recently has moved into a retirement living community because she was all by herself. And now that she's aging, she's chasing the, you know, after COVID, she's, you know, her health issues came up, majorly, and all that stuff. But the point being that I think it one one needs to kind of sometimes and I think it's it's about denial versus acceptance, how do you deal with it? What kind of support system you can garner yourself around with it? And how well can you take care of yourself because, in fact, I was telling somebody yesterday, I wrote this email to someone. So I had very recently shared on my LinkedIn about my challenges with depression and how I am on medication and stuff. And somebody who had read that Post wrote back to me saying that I salute you for acknowledging it publicly on LinkedIn. I haven't found that courage yet. And while I have battled depression in the past, she is currently a caregiver for her husband who's going to save the next case of cancer. So she says I don't have the courage to acknowledge it to my community. Right. And, and I think that's where we, you know, it's a very personal journey.

54:45

You know, like, there are cases where we know families hide the fact that a person in their house has dementia because they struggle with with the questions that will come with it, or you know, the kind of issues they would have to grapple with. It's okay

55:00

forgiving is never easy and accurate. Please point yes, we did not cover it in the book, because the book had a very different score. But it's a very, very real issue. And I think it's a very real issue which needs to be spoken about and talked about even more now. To your point, what, Michelle, how you're sharing, right, we are seeing India growing very rapidly. And very soon we will have many more elderly people in our society, which would mean the burden on the younger adults to be taking care of these older adults, it's only going to increase many fold. Right? So caregiving burden is something which is going to be a much bigger issue in the long term in the near term. And if not dealt with right now, where you are probably investing in making sure that your parents are active, you know, they are taking care of themselves, where you as a child are empowering them to take care of themselves. I think one needs to be prepared for that caregiving, which will kind of stumble upon you very soon.

56:07

Yeah, absolutely. There's so many, you know, we there's so many aspects to aging.

56:14

It's such a big, big, big topic.

56:17

And obviously, you know, we can't cover it in one book, we can't cover it in an hour, you know, there's just so many, many, many dimensions.

56:28

It's very interesting space as well, to be in as as entrepreneurs, I'm sure. Because, I mean, you know, we are going to get more of an aging population. And I curious, you know, about the response in the audience of the book. Because when I got it, so penguin actually sent me a review, copy. And that's how I got to know about the book. And I placed it on my dad sort of like when he eats breakfast. So before he is breakfast, I just placed it there. And I came home from work. And I said, did you look at it? And he said, Yeah, but I don't need it, you know. So I want to know, what is sort of the response, you know, because the very inspiration and an amazing book, anyone who's sort of in this cohort, I think should definitely read it, because it gives you tips, it gives you all of these amazing stories you can take so much from it. And it really changes the narrative of what, you know, aging means and active aging, because when we think of aging, we think, Oh, I'm just gonna sort of, you know, free, like bad, like bad health, and then all those negative connotations. But so what is the audience? You know, how is the audience response? Been to this book? Is it younger people? Is it like people in this cohort? Tell us a little bit more about that? So, you know, I want to quickly tell you, because you mentioned the visual, you know, and how it's all negative. So, we've been fortunate to have the book at quite a few lit festivals, since last December. And whenever Lydia and I are not part of a panel, and you know, it's just us talking about the book, we usually ask the audience a question, that if you had to think of a graphic about aging, what comes to your mind, and the younger people in the audience always say things like, oh, support, you know, like a person bent over a steak, someone holding it all these typical hospital logos, you see a person holding an umbrella over someone who's bent over a state, and all the all we ask them to think of a word if not a visual, and all the elderly people say things like independence, freedom, running, walking, mountain climbing, you name it, you know, all the active things come up. Only younger people I remember at Bangalore Lit Fest, there was this girl who said yes, these are the very young girl who did not mention frailty, anything because she had been with I think grandparents, right? Grandparents who are like this, you know, who she saw them? You know, age, you know, very active way. So yes, the response has been very interesting. Usually, after any talk, we have had a lot of young people.

59:08

One question you're always asked is who's the book for and we always say this book is for everyone. Especially like you said, anyone in this cohort, younger people who are, you know, looking at the older years, young people have come up to us a lot people in their 30s 40s because they say that, hey, suddenly, we are seeing that there are all these possibilities which we hadn't realized, and largely for their parents. So the response actually has been interesting, in the sense the same reaction you had with your father, I have at least had with a few friends, parents who are you know,

59:45

who don't even think of age, it is not a thought that has occurred to them ever because they are leading their lives in a very, in the same activity that they led probably when they were 50. They may be you know, in their late 70s early 80s

1:00:00

It is now but they have never slowed down so to speak. The only thing is that yeah, they may be pursuing more leisure activities, as opposed to going to office and showing up for work. So those people usually say, No, I don't need this book at all. But at the same time, people our age and, you know, in their late 40s, mid 40s, have actually shown a lot of

1:00:25

interest, because for many of them, it has been a bit of an eye opener simply in terms of the things that can be done as you grow older, because somewhere, we tend to think that, you know, age retirement is like a, you know, pause in life, you slow down, you don't do much, there isn't much options left. So yes, that that reaction has definitely happened. In fact, before, you know, the the tells you someone just very quickly told me, this is a person close to retirement. And we have a couple of instances in the book where someone who planned his retired years, he's also a member of us. And he's a very senior advocate, Mr. Shipp Kumar. And he talked about how he had consciously planned few things for his older years, which are now like things like, he's a lawyer, so things which did not involve law at all theater, music, several things that he learned and how those things are holding him in good stead. Now, as he's grown older, and there is another person who's talked about conscious aging, which is basically preparing yourself with things that will enrich you or give you a sense of purpose in the later years of your life. And a friend of mine, who's closer to retirement age actually said, hey, you know what, maybe I should now start pursuing these things. Because you, at the end of the day, you don't you need to expand your mind and your hobbies. So yes, that is one reaction lady will tell you about the reactions that she has come across, you know, I think what you have experienced with, you know, your father reacting to the book, and I think it comes back to what I had said, you know, people just do not accept that, ah, that they are in because in their mind, they are not there yet. Right. So we've had that kind of feedback from a few but then people who have read the book, you know, I think they have appreciated a lot. We've had one professor who said, this book should be found in every library, and everybody should read it. We have had a geriatrician who said, Whatever we JVR, you know, geriatric doctors would like to tell our patients and are unable to because of paucity of time, this book says it all and it should be read by everyone. And to you know, what Rashmi was saying, for younger people who have read it actually, that was the biggest surprise to my mind, because

1:02:49

one, while we were very consciously writing it for anyone and everyone, because we wanted the audience to be, you know, more broad based and, and we were not addressing a particular age segments, so to say, but what I had not expected was the even people, even kids who are in their early 20s, who find the book relatable. And this came very, you know, evidently, to me, when, you know, I was at the bigger ballot fest. And after I finished my session, I actually had about two or three youngsters come up to me with very specific situations that they were seeing, observing their own poems. You know, for example, one girl said, My father is, you know, has been a lawyer, he just retired and I suddenly see him lost all his purpose, you know, he is just sitting at home, and I don't know how to help him, I invite him for coming out. But, you know, there is only so many times that he would come out and rest of the times he would say, I don't want to go, why, why why spend money on something like this, right. And I had given her a few tips on how she could help him find a part time job where he could still utilize his skills and all, then somebody another girl came up to me, and this was a very different situation where she said, she is working from home, and her father has this sudden expectation that they would go traveling very often, just because she's working from home, right? She said, in the last one year, the amount of travel that we have done is and when she said the number, it was like, almost every month, they were going out. And this was not like a day trip or anything. They were actually traveling and the sibling who was in another city was also expected. So for the parents, it had become like a reason for a family gathering, right? And she said, I can't keep up with that pace, I'm fine. I'm struggling to, you know, really do that at you know, and meet her expectations. And in this case, I had to tell her that you know, you may be will need to define your boundaries, and you will have to explain them that while you're going on holiday, just because you have working from home, you end up working while on your holiday and it's not serving the purpose. So you may have to come up with a number that you can balance with, right. So I think so.

1:05:00

The book actually brought out a lot of personal situations and people come in and asking us about very specifics. And these are very, very young kids who really did not know how to approach their parents with with in certain situations. So I think that way the book and the conversations have had touched a chord, you know, a candidate, in a way, in a larger way is very age agnostic.

1:05:26

Yeah, totally. You know, and I really liked this exercise that y'all do, y'all asked people to think of the graphic and I just did that exercise when y'all asked, and my vision is, you know, me sitting at a laptop, I mean, not a very exciting vision, but mine sitting at the laptop and writing like, I My dream is to like, write for as long as I can, and I do hope that, that that's gonna be possible. But anyway, but I just, you know, listening about all the stories you're on, especially the kind of value of book and, you know, sort of play like to set right even a doctor would rather give this to, to a patient for them to understand, because you only have limited space of time to sort of make your point, right. So what I want to know is, you know, how to books play a larger role in the lives of sort of these, these, these people that you have worked with in silver copies, right. You know, for example, is there a book club, is there a way for them to react because there was a instance in the book that I really liked. So her name is Jeffrey cannon and how, you know, she, she came across this book, and it just changed the way she was sort of dealing with with the things in her life. And the book is called you can heal your life by Louise Hay. So I really want to know a little bit about that.

1:06:37

So, before I delve into your question, Michelle, I'll also tell you this, the other common question that we ask on all these interactions is that when you speak to your parents, what is the most common question you asked them? Can you guess what the answer we get?

1:06:52

No. How are you feeling? Like something? What helps? Yeah, about health and referring to health? What are you usually referring to? You're referring to your their physical health? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. So So even that lack of understanding of how health is so much beyond physical health, it's also about the emotional and social well being. And the mental well being that has also been one common thread, you know, where we find that there is complete lack of understanding and awareness of how health is so much beyond physical health. Right. So so that's something which we have tried to bring to that structure related question that you were asking about the book, right, the different aspects of holistic wellbeing that one needs to look at, regarding the Yeah, so I think the role books play, I think we are now you know, in our group have many voracious readers, you know, and I think books to leave a huge impact on their lives. And many times, you know, as you said, Jeffrey currents was one example where the book really transformed how she really handled her cancer situation, right, because it really opened up new vistas for her to understand what she was dealing with, and why she was dealing with it. And, and the, it helped her cope, and it changed the trajectory, you know, which she was on. So I think books are can can be very, very impressionable, and, and can, you know, if it's something really strikes, you touches you, it can read, I also read that book, in fact, it was a you can heal your life. And I think the perspective that you get from books like that, or even, you know, the power of subconscious mind and things like that, it can be anything which can, you know, just

1:08:34

make a huge impact. That's all I can say about it. But Rashmi is a much bigger reader than I am. So maybe she has, has another different perspective to it, that I'm no longer in Netflix has beaten reading. But so yes, definitely books can have a huge impact. In fact, when it comes to our, you know, within the community, one of the things we try and foster are varied interests. And so within the, you know, within our club, so the literally club is actually something we run with our members. And we do see a lot of interest there, we try and get different authors every month, to have a small zoom interaction, like we are a hybrid model. So most of our interactions and events are online currently. And it's quite interesting. The things that come up to me, for instance, we had we had commonly done to money was returned by very recently, she's written on Cholas. And while she was having that interaction with the members, the kinds of questions that come up, you know, so, and they do their homework many times. So it just shows that, you know, it's, it's a great way to expand your thought and the more you introduce them to different books, different ideas we've had, as part of the lit club and introduction

1:10:00

And we have had someone talking about, you know, not just history, but someone talking about we have had the romance writer and the lib, Virgin. And when she was talking, I actually thought and like, these are all the surprises we are caught, we constantly get, we still have, I think it's very hard to get out of certain set stereotypes. For instance, when she was talking, I felt the only that interested and the way that delved into, you know, they made her bring out, you know, what really drove her characters, what really were the aspects of her own life that helped her build up those characters.

1:10:38

So it kind of shows that, you know, somewhere that wisdom and experience of yours, the that perspective is very different from many of our perspectives, you know, the perspective that you probably have at 70 is going to be very different from what we will have in our 40s. And somewhere literature helps bring it out, at least to my mind from the and I'm just sharing, seeing this, you know, off the top of my head, remembering the interactions we have in the elite club, the perspective it helps to bring out in people is, is very different and very powerful. It's a great way to kind of start conversations, it's a great way to, you know, delve into certain what, why say certain taboo areas are difficult to speak about areas. So yes, I definitely think that, while that is not the core of our work, it's a small part of the silver talkies club. But it is a great way to bring those interesting conversations out. Hope we have answered your question. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we work with a few elders ourselves. Because you know what you said about wisdom, right? Like, these people have so many amazing stories that they want to capture, and their grandparents and children want them to be captured right before they sort of go away. So we actually help, you know, people write down their own stories.

1:12:07

And it all started because when my granddad was diagnosed with cancer,

1:12:12

he was like, you know, what, I want you to write a book about my life. So we spent, you know, months together, collating, you know, I was interviewing him, he was an architect, talking to his clients, you know, photography, his houses. And I was very happy, because before he went good, I could present him with that book. And he also, you know, I could tell was really, really happy. Because even in the last stages of the life, it was sort of, he really wanted to tell all his grandchildren, his stories, you know, all his lessons, he was constantly wanting to sort of impart that information could see that he wanted to do it. And then having it sort of in that sort of book structure, I think was really, really amazing. And also him knowing that like, all of that is gonna sort of, like, be kept in one place forever was really weird. So, so that aspect is how we sort of, you know, try and contribute in a little way and sort of like, you know, capture these stories.

1:13:13

So now, that brings us to the second last section of the interview, which is our quiz round. And Michelle is our quiz master. So

1:13:26

yeah, so we call it a fun quiz. You know from Waldo it's sort of like this, it lightens up the mood. So I mean, I could you know, reach me on either of you could answer the questions. Okay. So I'm gonna give you options you have to pick one one exercise an old person should start their day with a breathing be headstand see cartwheel.

1:13:54

It is the criteria here everybody should start with breeding.

1:14:00

Okay, okay. Originally What was your option? Was it the same?

1:14:05

Okay, awesome. One phrase that's an absolute no at Silver turkeys a I can't do this be tomorrow. See? Let me see.

1:14:17

If I can do this. For me it would be Let me see.

1:14:22

Okay, interesting. What the sides have one common thread that you have encountered in all your interactions? A memory loss be lonely loneliness. C frustration.

1:14:36

Loneliness. Yeah. Same. Oh, okay. All right. If a retired person had to pick one thing and do that really well, what would you recommend? A meditation be walking every day see laughter club

1:14:52

between laughter club and walking everyday but I would probably go for laughter club.

1:14:57

Okay, all right. So that

1:15:00

brings us to the end of it. And now we have our last rapid fire round. And your what you're gonna do is you're gonna give us rapid answers, no thinking, No cheating. Okay. All right, this is finally. Okay. One habit of Rashmi that you have take that you have observed and that you think will run into her 60s. She thinks a lot.

1:15:24

Okay, same question, punish me.

1:15:29

I love the theme. And so we both think.

1:15:35

Yeah, fair enough. One and spatial code that always does wonders for older people. Let's have a talk is

1:15:44

not a code, but I think it's a phrase age is just a number.

1:15:50

Yeah, I think that's really cool. Okay, what is the must ingredient for a senior living home if you could build the ideal one?

1:15:59

One which has a, which is centrally located. It's not like in the deserts and the jungles of the of the city, which is more centrally located allowing them to be active and mobile and go around.

1:16:12

Yeah, so true. All of the senior living facilities, always sort of, you know, yeah. Okay, one chapter, you both have opposing views on it, because this is a co written book.

1:16:26

We don't think we have views on that very honestly. No, we don't.

1:16:33

We may have a slightly different perspective, just to add to some of them, but no, chapters are fairly similar views. What is your next book? Next book? A sequel to the present one? Yes. We'd love to, you know, probably we'd love to bring a few more aspects which are not highlighted here. We don't have, like you said, you know, there is no caregiving. We haven't spoken about mortality, really. We haven't spoken about women's health issues, which are so huge as they grow older. So yes, we'd love to do a book where we look at, again, not in a, you know, not in a sad, depressing way at all. Because we don't see that when we look at the way ages working out for a lot of our community members, we see them dealing with all these so called frailties, and negative aspects of age, but, you know, work their way around it, deal with it, to the best extent possible. So and also the community beyond members and outdoors. Yes, we'd love to do something. Yeah, we would love to read that. And in fact, I was, you know, when I was reading it, I just I kept marking down what's what's not there. And I wanted to suggest, please write this.

1:17:46

Please suggest it would be a huge help. Yes, probably trigger that. I will be sitting on it. We are not going around. Talking about it actively. Maybe that will be trigger us to actually put that be the muse. Yeah.

1:18:03

Yeah, but it was, it was a lot of fun speaking to y'all. And I think Tara and I just absolutely loved the book. And more than the book, like we said, we love the people that came across and US people are so warm, and so genuinely interested in, you know, older people and and the way they sort of live their life and which is which is rare to come across. So really, I mean, it's kudos to all of the work that you do at Silver talkies. And for writing this book, I had a lot of fun. And thank you so much. We had a great time to thank you for having us. Yeah. And I think I would probably just say the credit for it actually goes to all those inspiring seniors who have shared their stories with us. I think that open new vistas in our own understanding, so I think that entirely is dedicated to them. So yeah, thank you so much. And I think, you know, like we're very close to our grandparents. So this was a very special episode, because it's really sort of into the home where these are people that we love and care about. So thanks for bringing the concept of active aging across and yeah, thank you. So thank you.

1:19:09

So here we are, where the end of yet another journey into the many worlds of Books and Beyond with bound. I'm Tara Knievel. I'm Michelle D'costa. And this podcast is created by bound a company that helps you grow through stories Find us at bound India or all social media platforms. So tune in every Wednesday if you live, eat and breathe books, and join us as we discover more revolutionary books and take into the lives and minds of some truly brilliant authors from India and South Asia. And don't forget to keep your love for stories alive for books and beyond.