6.11 Bhaskar Roy: Witnessing The Horrors Of Post-Independence India As A Child

Find out what it was like growing up in post-independence India through the eyes of a man who lived through it all!

Join Michelle as she speaks with Bhaskar Roy, author of 'Fifty Year Road', a personal memoir like no other. Bhaskar talks about growing up during the Naxalbari uprising - the armed peasant revolt of 1967 in West Bengal. He shares his earliest memories of witnessing the violence of the Naxalite movement, stories of his parents and their activism, and risky assignments that he's covered during his days as a journalist, including watching a car blow up in front of his eyes!

In this exciting partnership series with Jaico Publishing House, we are featuring fascinating new authors every month, writers that captivate the audience and bring forth a revolutionary perspective to Indian literature.

Tune in for a never-before-seen view of India's history!

Books and authors mentioned in this episode:

One Hundred Years of Solitude - Gabriel García Márquez
Sons and Lovers - D.H. Lawrence

Movies mentioned in this episode:
The Calcutta Trilogy - Mrinal Sen (Director)

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Bhaskar Roy, Michelle D'costa

Michelle D'costa  00:05

Hi everyone, welcome back being a huge history buff. We have covered different sides of Indian history on this podcast before from South Indian dynasties with Anirudh curiosity to you know era Makati and history is invisible women to Archer Malhotra and partition to Tony Joseph and prehistoric early Indians, to Manu Joseph, you know with India's maharajahs. So today I'm going to unpack the history of India starting from the mid 60s onwards. So Mr. Bhaskar Roy, who's with us today, he's taken us down this 50 year road, you know, through his eyes of a political journalist, and it's actually written as a memoir, so it's very personal. So it's actually about his life growing up in India when the Naxalite movement was at its peak, right. And since then, he's seen so many pivotal moments in Indian politics, you know, like the Bangladesh Liberation War, you know, the emergency, Indira Gandhi's assassination and so many more. And, you know, we as readers feel his emotions as we read the book, because he was right there experiencing it. And we see 50 years of India unfold before our eyes. So let's time travel with Mr. Pastor. Welcome.

Bhaskar Roy  01:27

Thank you, Michelle. Thanks for the introduction you have given me. 

Michelle D'costa  01:41

Yeah, it's an honor, sir. So actually, I mean, you know, we've seen a lot of demand for memoirs these days, and especially certain kinds of memories. So there are a lot of celebrity members, which are doing very well, right. So there are Bollywood stars, athletes, politicians, all of that. But the USP of your memoir, you know, according to me, is that it's a personal history of an ordinary man, right, which you have combined with a factual history of India post independence. So could you please narrate that one moment for us, you know, when you knew that you had to write a book on this specific period in India's history?

Bhaskar Roy  02:18

Well, as they say, there is always a story behind the story. So, that story is in the summer of 2020. You know, in the midst of lockdown, homebound, and very distressed. I began looking back. So the earliest I could recall distinctly was the Naxalite uprising in 1967. In a remote corner of the Eastern Himalayas, and now at universities at undergraduate level, they teach you the history of nationalism and all that, but it happened right before our eyes. I was a child, I think six years old. But on our street. The debate was one Maoist leader in the neighborhood was arrested by the police. I remember his name saw this Banerjee and very senior mouse leader. So his family, the neighbors had no regret for that. That fellow is behind the bars. That debate was whether he actually crossed the border, went to Beijing and shook hands with Mao Zedong. Which top Chinese leader and he shook hands with. So the, you know, naxal Naxalite movement meant a lot of excesses ordinary people died, you know, even traffic policeman is killed. But at the same time, it evokes a lot of idealism, that that 20 Somethings, it has some of the best students, both boys and girls, they left the campuses, they then attach the related book and soul to liberate the country all they wanted was an egalitarian society, that there should be an exploitation free India and all that. And in the process, they got killed also.. So, in a nutshell, light movement meant all that excesses idealism, brutality, so I remember vs Napoli in India, Amelia and mutinous I read that book, somehow remarked that in the Naxalite movement, India lost the best of a generation.

Michelle D'costa  06:03

Yeah, so certainly, you know, as you mentioned, there was a lot of bloodshed, there was a lot of, you know, pain, a lot of grief. And there was, as you said, idealism or so right in that in that phase. So, and this, this black slide moment is something that you have also covered previously in your work, right, which is your words, written fiction, where you've mixed Bengali folklore, you know, set in the backdrop of this moment, you know, so for our listeners, you know, let's see, no, who does not have context about this moment? Okay. What is this moment, according to you in in sort of a nutshell. Okay, what was the next slide moment? And why was it important for you to capture it? Right, because you also mentioned that it's a very less focused account of India that often gets overlooked by other history of grapples, right. So could you please share with us? What's your idea of that moment? Like, what exactly was it? And why was it important for you to capture it in the book?

Bhaskar Roy  07:00

Well, if you read the history of the Naxalite movement, I'm not talking about what is going on in Chattisgarh today, but I am talking about the uprising in Naxalbari. And all that, you know, those who picked up arms in 6970 71, and the bond schools, universities, colleges, the battle with the police, they were the first generation of the Indian Republic. That country got its independence in 1947. So those who are born around the independence, say, 1944 45, so they were still in their teens in the movement started, you know, 1818 year old, maybe someone 19. So that, to my mind, this revolt against the Indian state was, you know, was their way of saying that I am disaffected, I have lost confidence that my dream has got broken. I mean, what we expected from an independent country that it's no longer a colonial rule, the Britishers are gone. It's our own leaders ruling and is this what we have got? So it was their way very self destructive, you know, very anarchic. But that youth is you Dali youth. So that's the route they took.

Michelle D'costa  09:10

So, so, see this, this moment, clearly, you have a lot of emotion, you know, attached towards this. So So what made you sort of decide that you are going to capture all of this, especially this moment in the form of a book?

Bhaskar Roy  09:26

Well, the book is not all about the Naxalite movement after it has actually two parts. You know, after I came over to Delhi in 1985, and I started meeting the political leaders from different parties, that is another story, but that was my earliest memory. You know, We are going to school. And on the football ground, there was a truncated body and his tummy very badly slashed the head missing. And I threw up. I could not eat them that day, I knew I had bad dreams. So it shook us and it left an indelible mark. On Us. It's very difficult to come out of it. You know, he chases you all the time.

Michelle D'costa  10:36

In that is Yeah, though, that is quite disturbing, sir. I can't imagine disturbing as a child, you know, as a child, imagine witnessing such an incident. Yeah.

Bhaskar Roy  10:46

And we were, I think, in the fifth or sixth, then suddenly, we saw this. And then it was almost on a daily basis, you get to hear that, oh, that boy has been picked up. He did not get home today. When you say that the boy didn't get on. It has a different connotation. You know what it means? So all that, you know, who meant so much to me. And the other story is that after the emergency was over the Janta, party government came to power. So as part of their poll promise, they released all political prisoners. So the naxalites also worked failed. And when you looked at them, say they were still young, say someone 20 FY 26, and one hand chopped off one eye gouge trout. So they are they were the last generation, but the rest of the life, they would have to carry that burden. In all that memory of the revolt, you know, they would have to carry through their life. It's the huge prize, those who got killed, they were killed. But those who are still alive with limbs lost with the eyes lost with the with the closest friends did. It's terrible.

Michelle D'costa  12:41

No, yeah. I mean, it's it's something I think we can't even imagine, you know, like they say the political parties change. But at the end of the day, the citizens are the ones who sort of go through

Bhaskar Roy  12:50

exactly what you're saying that something that our listeners would think about. Yes, in my book, I carried excerpts from the letters. Some of these Naxalite activists wrote home from the prison cells. And I got a collection of them. I did a lot of research. So one girl. She was married to someone and they had a way of marrying, you know, our partner, our comrade was touching the red book that he was fired by the Red Book, that today onward we are man and wife and something like that. So she is writing to an elderly woman. It's not very clear, but I assume that this elderly woman is the mother of the man she married and that man got killed. And she has no regrets, no remorse, she is talking about others that are anti, you have to take care of your health. You have to be in fine fettle. That day we come back we will all meet and you have to guide us and it's really very poignant, it it moves so deeply. That they made a lot of lot of mistakes. No doubt about it. They were misguided. But when it comes to idealism, there was data that was unmatched.

Michelle D'costa  14:58

No, I can just imagine so see Because having memories of that time is one thing. But you going out of the way doing research finding out these, you know, these real stories of sorts of different people, right, like you said, and what I what I really like is that you have covered, you know, different dynamics, your relationships, right? So it could be someone's wife, it could be someone's mother. And it's just this, I think, throughout your book, what kept me going? So is the fact that yes, to one extent, there are these major political events which are happening right in the country, you can sense that these are, these are sort of changing the narrative of India. Right? Exactly. It's a lot has happened. But at the end of the day, it's through your eyes, it's through a certain, I would say, empathy or certain emotion, which we don't often see in political memoirs. So, you know, I also read so that, you know, you mentioned your parents were very prominent personalities in Calcutta. You know, because of their younger days, they were, I mean, they were sort of involved in political activism, you know, even back then. And so, your mother was sort of, you know, in the middle of this elite circle in town growing up and people were naturally drawn towards her or your father, for example, he was part of the Quit India movement, right in 1940. So, they, I mean, they seem like very fascinating people. So, so do you have any, you know, memorable anecdotes about them that you could share with us? How did they are they are sort of thinking or upbringing filtered through in the book? Well,

Bhaskar Roy  16:27

first, when I say that, the elite circle in the refugee town, there is an island in elitism in a refugee Town is a kind of contradiction in terms. The town which is a suburb of Calcutta, was actually an odd A F airbase. Bomber fell to the Japanese at apps, I think hurriedly they built this airbase to repulse Japanese adapts. And after the Second World War, it was discarded. It was lying there. So when partition took place, and you know, the refugees are coming from what was East Pakistan at that time in 1000s. To accommodate some of them, they hurriedly built it down, but the planning and everything was meticulous, so good. But they were all refugees in someone. And I had that job, someone didn't have a job and all that uprooted people. And all they had was this memory that we had this, we had that we had a big shop, we had hundreds of acres of land and these that, and they would get that together. And I remember, we we were missing some my parents were in government service. So we were better off slightly than others. So we had a huge black Murphy radio. So you know, other elderly women would come and sit with my grandmother to listen to those radio plays. I don't think you have any idea what radio plays are all about, I think two days a week, there would be radio plays. So these women would gather. So after the play was over, they would keep talking that you know, there's a stigma because this east wing or it is it's the Delta actually what is Bangladesh today, and there are lots of rivers so, so that is tomorrow would leave from here. And it's a three day trip to Dhaka and all that, and that they want that they are living in a different country. There is it's an there is an international border. They weren't not simply bothered. And as far as I mean, that memory had a firm grip over them, upon them, this reality of living in this small town didn't matter it was immaterial for them. And as far as my parents are concerned, my father, he was the son of his I mean that the state was in disorder. So he took part in the 1942 Quit India movement. And he got caught he was tortured. But we being the sign of this I mean that you know Didn't know charges or slept he was set fee and all that. Now what I did not write in my book, but now I can share with you and our business that he was a at one point he was a senior government officer, Deputy image magistrates. And so in his office, one woman worked. So she one day said, Sir, my uncle was remembering you. And is what is his name? My father asked, said he was Sengupta, inspectors and Gupta. Then my father had a sense of humor. He said that how can I forget inspector Cymbalta because he kicked me in my belly. And I you know, it was terrible for me. Then that woman, his subordinate was embarrassed. He's very sorry. That was 50 years ago. It doesn't matter. But I will never forget, inspectors in with. So these are the tales, the stories, which people carried no, that kind of oral history that despite partition, despite East Pakistan one day becoming Bangladesh and all that. They never forgot they never came out of those folklores. That's a

Michelle D'costa  21:50

no, exactly. So So I think I think you know, the way you're like you don't even like answering these questions. And there's a lot of story there. Right? There's a lot of planning dots there. So which we often don't see. So earlier, you had mentioned that, you know, there are a lot of movies, right? So which is what even during our research, when we were reading your book, or when we were reading other sort of, you know, looking at the content around this topic, there are actually a lot of movies which cover this. But what I also like is that, you know, you've said that, it's only you who's able to sort of give an account of those times that no other historian can write. So So while you were collating data research for the book, right, why you have all these memories, all these stories? Was it challenging for you to sort of make it very accessible to an ordinary crowd, right? Is that what you mean by that no other historian could provide this research or do you mean, it's your access to certain kinds of people certain stories. So I would love to know more about that process.

Bhaskar Roy  22:46

Well, no, when I was writing the book, even though I was a journalist for 25 years, I worked for India, today, I worked for Indian Express, I worked for the Times of India for a long time. And then I moved into publishing, I headed a company, I was also the editor of perhaps India's only theme the literary magazine called the equator line, I was the founding editor. But you know, I realized and I understood that if my book had to sell that, it had to be appreciated, read by ordinary people, someone picking it up from an airport bookstore, then I have to think about the language I have to think about the way I should write, it should not be a heavy academic book, then it is confined to the University Libraries. It is confined to a very small circle of academics, university professors, college professors, and a small section of students I did not want that. And I am really very happy that the book is now being picked up by ordinary people in the it's like a story and the first review of this book interestingly, there is a story again appeared in a Pakistani paper called The News on Sunday. The reviewer there mentioned that, though it's a memoir, someone's it's about someone's life. But that fiction writers hand is very, very discernible, you can see that. So the the that is I think Obama made that reviewer comment that this is this is of course it's someone's autobiography. But that fictional flavor is also there.

Michelle D'costa  26:46

Yes, no, definitely. I think for us also, you know, like, for me, it was an experience. It was as if I was living through those scenes, you know, it was so visceral, that I felt like I was then and there even though you're actually talking about a period which is, you know, in the past. So see, you know, you've had a very illustrious career in journalism, you know, you have been a political journalist, as you said, you know, you've written for different kinds of newspapers, magazines, all of that. But at the end of the day, you know, when we publish a book, right, it doesn't matter what topic you always need to sort of get to get verified or to, you know, to get validated by some people. And I was really happy to see that you've got endorsements from some of the most renowned authors out there for Chitra. Banerjee, you know, to be some we were also you have Western writers like, you know, either Jad Adams. Yes. You know, and also the foreword of the book is interestingly written by Paul Pickering, who's actually a British playwright. So so, you know, I want to know, so how did you sort of manage to get an international readership for this? Because it's sort of heavily set in India, about India? And what is the sort of reception that you have received from the Indian pub, now that the book is out?

Bhaskar Roy  28:01

Well, you know, since my publishing days, I have been going to the UK, particularly London, because which is a major publishing center, there are two major publishing centers. One is New York, the other London and I got to meet many of these writers in London, you know, in different circles. What Paul Pickering, you're both of us consider that we are friends. In fact, Paul sent me a little film, holding my book one morning, and a samurai in the background, that charge bill is going on, and Bart's singing. And I know he was not well just recovered from some minor ailment and he holding the book like this. I am Paul Pickering, I recommend hospitals book which only you know someone who believes in the book and you know, over there, it's your reputation, unless you are very, very convinced that what you are endorsing or what you are certifying, is a good product. They will never do that. So I am that way lucky that all those who read this book, Paul, then Jad Adams, John Adams used to write for the equator line. I mean, he didn't have a former BBC journalist he didn't have to I write for the equator line to support us. He wrote me thought that NATO as a liberal platform in an increasingly illiberal world, so I need to support them. And that's why he wrote, and he is a practicing Gandhian in London. He has a lot of inner liberal commitment and all that. And then the other many he, this baby's Heliot, a very well known scholar, he was once the editor of the Times Literary Supplement, the London Times, he was the editor of a magazine also, and he wrote about 30 books. And you will be surprised, he is still not on the internet. He does not use a mobile phone. It's difficult to trace him. So he very strongly very strongly recommended this book said that this is the history of that 20th century the end of colonists. So no, I got to know them during, you know, my stay in London act, book events and all that. And in India, it is really surprising. Yesterday, that Tribune carried a review, I would request you to take a look at it. And the reviewer, again, is a former journalist, but we have we are out of touch for a long, long time, you know, this pandemic and all that, you know, it's scattered everybody and you do not know why the other side. So he he brought that of Husker rise, reminiscences in the 50 year road are hard, compelling. That one sentence that I remember. So the reception I think is good.

Michelle D'costa  32:40

Yeah. And it's and it's really nice to see so much support, as you said, so for liberal ideas, you know, I think, yeah, because nowadays, you know, what happens is the usual process is, you know, a book gets picked up by a publisher, and then the publisher usually sends it out, you know, to two people for endorsements and all that. But I think in your case, it's more like you just the other way down. Yeah. Yes. Where you, you know, they knew of your work, and they've supported your work for a very long time, which is very interesting. So, you know, so I'm really fascinated by your career. So because, you know, I've heard that during your journalism days, you went on a lot of high risk assignments, where you've covered you know, Hindu Muslim riots, you've covered the Gurkha uprising in the Darjeeling hills, you've covered so much, could you please share with us the most exciting or most memorable assignments that you've been on? And it's okay, even if you've not covered that in the book, but something that has always stayed with you? Yeah, I

Bhaskar Roy  33:34

get to a point. This episode is not part of the book, but I'm sharing with you. My daughter was one month old. It was 9090. I think they remember the month September when I was with India today. So I reached the office in Bonnat place. And they said that the terrible riots going on in Allegan. And Allegan is very sensitive, you know. So you take a photographer and you immediately leave for Alagar and see what is happening. So, from my experience, I covered these Hindu Muslim riots quite a few times. You know, it is never a one sided affair. I mean, that's why it's right. It's right. And it's madness. That it's not a murder. It's not a not an attack, you know. So when I reached there right before my eyes, one car was blown up. So, one and army was already replied. So, one army officer was screaming at me go ever, what are you seeing this is madness and say that I was in Jaffna at part of IPPF. So, I can tell you this place is much much worse than Jaffna. What then, I flashed my press card and I said look, you are doing your duty, you are writing your uniform and I am also on duty I am a journalist, I have to report back otherwise, the world will not know what is happening. So, my photograph for the month push Ghana and I was isn't implemented push Ghana, yes, from us push Ghana. So, we were moving around the city hand there is I don't know if you are familiar with this part of North India, there is a this railway track that the main line that connects you that goes up to Calcutta and all that. So, this side of the track is one kind of storing one community at the receiving end. And the other side of that track is the other or the other community which is at the receiving end. So, we went to the hospital and there was no trace of any doctor or nurses, no treatment going on is the word dimly lit. And some of these patients they are groaning in pain, you could smell blood. So, one woman sitting next to the patient, again, another woman could sense that we are journalists, we are from Delhi or from the outside world. So, she was trying to speak broken English to impress us, you know, to draw our attention. And then we went and she said that this woman she is my sister in law. So the fast they killed my brother, then they killed my interview. And when she went to save my interview was two bullets I hate her here on the shoulder. So, I am waiting for the doctors but nothing only that sideline drape attached to her nose. And then we asked a few questions then she said I I work in Gandhi I hospital and Gandhi Gandhi and she broke down as if she was trying to derive a whole lot of strength from the Gandhi name that this is my identity. And many then I wrote in my piece in India today, I mean, if you go through the Indira defiance, you can still read it that what do I write? I could not ask her whether she was Hindu or Muslim. It's human nature someone who is suffering and her story touches everybody. And many years after that many years, whenever I saw on Delhi roads suppose I am also drunk driving to a place and all that there is an ambulance of Gandhi, I must be hospital and eager. Like, immediately I thought of that open and it's terrible and it shows if you ask me the sheer meaninglessness of life lights.

Michelle D'costa  39:52

Really, you know, it's such a moving moving story and I can't even imagine how you separate it

Bhaskar Roy  39:58

doesn't really matter that what is our community? What is exactly,

Michelle D'costa  40:03

exactly? Because at the end of the day, it's pain, it is a summary. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very rare that you get to see journalists these days who can see beyond that, right? We all, we all know, the, you know, the kind of narratives which are coming out these days. And it is sad that I mean, at the end of the day, it's it's no more a human story. It's sort of always attached to a label attached to a community, which is really sad. But thank you for sharing that. I mean, I can only imagine that's just one of the instance right, you have seen if

Bhaskar Roy  40:36

it is possible, you can google google it hashCode roll 1990? I think I'm sure it was September. Very good. It might come up in a Google search.

Michelle D'costa  40:49

Yes, yes. I'm sure. And I'm sure that you know, so many, so many other incidents like this have have sort of, but so I just, I want to know more of more on the aspects of let's say, Now, you've you've seen so many, you know, incidents like this, right? And you've also written this whole book about, you know, 50 years of India's journey. But so what is it that sort of, I would say, prepares you for this, this level of, I would say, disturbance or driers, is this something that you're training? Sort of, sort of? Is this thick skin? That is something that you build during your training? Or is it something that sort of happened over time? Like, right now, I'm sure you, you know, your whole life is essentially, you know, covering all these kinds of stories, but maybe, let's say, when you were starting out, was that something that was really difficult for, you know,

Bhaskar Roy  41:42

in journalism or in you know, through journalism, there is no training. You you learn on the road? Like they say that you learn business on the floor. So you learn journalism on the road. And you come across a situation. And you you decide that what are you don't decide automatically, you know, your reflexes a work, that you know, what is right, what is wrong, what I need to do what I don't need to do? So there is no training for this.

Michelle D'costa  42:30

Yes, it's, it's this instinct, as you say,

Bhaskar Roy  42:32

how you as a human being would let

Michelle D'costa  42:37

your voice I think, I think as what you meant to say is also just like writers have their own voice have their own style. Even journalists have their own approach, like,

Bhaskar Roy  42:46

you see a blind man trying to cross the road. So you would just a stretch your hand that let me help him to cross the road. So that's your reflex walking like a goalkeeper in a football match, whether he jumps to the right or to the left, you know, it's the reflex of that moment. If he is mistaken. He loses. It's like,

Michelle D'costa  43:14

it's a hit and miss, which you also learn.

But yes, as you said, I think these are just one of the stories that you would come across, you have so many so many more interesting ones. And, you know, we know that through the book. So definitely others can read the book to you know, understand more about it. But so I'm wanting to know, because see this, your book covers a lot of controversial historical moments in India, right? Was there any kind of censorship that you sort of had to do? Is it like, it could even be censorship on a individual level where you feel you've had to filter out some to filter some details, or let's say even let's say from the publisher or from your beta readers, what was that process?

Bhaskar Roy  49:26

Well, as a career journalist, I know that how much you can write and how much you cannot write. And also, how you can write a lot. In come back to it a lot of meaning, what a witch can pass the senses. You had steak, they would not object. So I did that time. When I was, I am not provocative. And at the same time, I said a lot without raising a controversy. Controversy sells a book. But I don't believe in that. That's

Michelle D'costa  50:14

not your Yes. That's something my Yeah, that my way. Correct? No, that's what I sensed when I when I, in fact, when I read the books are, which is why I thought I wanted to ask you this specialty means Did you zero change the sort of tone or the kind of writing, you know, keeping this in mind, but I think as you're saying, it's your natural approach. Okay. So,

Bhaskar Roy  50:35

you know, you have to know that a lot of meaning. Yes, it is something which looks innocuous.

Michelle D'costa  50:47

Exactly, no. And I think these, you know, these little stories that you add, even in the book, you know, this, this humor actually comes up as it makes it a very, you know, light read, you know, because you have covered so many events, which which could get, which could sort of, you know, get people, you know, thinking that oh, it's a very serious book, it is a serious book, but you have added a lot of entertaining. Trivia here and there. So which, which brings me to the next section of the interview. So this is a fun quiz. Okay, you're supposed to pick one option out of the three. Okay. First, one country that you have mixed feelings about a Pakistan be Bangladesh, see India?

Bhaskar Roy  51:31

Well, Pakistan, I have lots of friends in Pakistan. And I know, there are lots of people who are as liberal as you are, or as I am. And they think like us, they want to live like us. But they are trapped in a bad situation. And when you really get to know a Pakistani, I mean, a Pakistani like you. What surprises you that? There despite whatever you get to see or get to hear our Bollywood movies, our television propaganda and all that, then? No, they are people just like us. They look like us. And there are really no differences. And that raises a question, then, why did we fight those four wars? What a waste. You spent that amount of money on health care on education. You could have done a whole lot of things. I mean, both did that country also there isn't even bad.

Michelle D'costa  53:03

I get it. Yeah. Okay. So the one role that you would pick over the others, a politician, B journalist, C fiction writer,

Bhaskar Roy  53:14

fiction writers. Yeah,

Michelle D'costa  53:15

they so I somehow gets that. So you know, but we are storytelling skills. Okay. One way to describe Indian politics, A, it's wild, like a jungle. B. It's clever like chess. See, it's popular like cricket.

Bhaskar Roy  53:32

It's popular in like cricket. Okay.

Michelle D'costa  53:36

Bhaskar Roy  53:40

that thing is politics collectively decides, defines, you know, our futures, the kind of people who you want to be. Now, the thing is that if a whole lot of bad guys get into politics, so the so our politics will have to be bad. And if you have a whole lot of good guys doing politics, then our politics will be good. It will be an instrument of change.

Michelle D'costa  54:18

Yeah, absolutely. Do

Bhaskar Roy  54:19

you have ever thought of a career in politics?

Michelle D'costa  54:25

Not at all, not at all, I think you need I think you need a very, very different kind of build or make, I mean, in a way game. It's like, as you said, so like, you need to know how to sort of react to the situation on what to say which means needs a lot of I would say a very different mindset, a lot of training as well. Okay. Isn't the last one if you had to write one biography, who would it be on a Indra Gandhi be Rajiv Gandhi see LK advance

Bhaskar Roy  55:01

I will write about Elliot burning 

Michelle D'costa  57:25

yet okay, so this brings us to the last round on the interview. So it's called the rapid fire round where you should answer in one word or one line. Okay, no thinking about, okay. The one most vulnerable moment in your writing career.

Bhaskar Roy  57:47

The most vulnerable moment was I was making progress with the book I was writing. And I didn't know who my publisher would be. Because of the pandemic, the publishing industry, like all other sectors, was in a bad shape. You know, the number of books being published came down, there was uncertainty. So here I am writing a book, I am doing my research. Even deer in the midst of pandemic I traveled here and there to interview people to collect data. And there was that uncertainty hanging over me that I do not know whether this book will see the light of day or not. Yeah,

Michelle D'costa  58:49

and that's something I relate to as well. So as a writer, I think it's very interesting, because while you have vulnerable moments throughout, right, by writing the book itself, sometimes you don't know where it's going. You don't know what's happening, but I think not having a publisher is definitely a fear that a lot of writers have Yes, okay. So, one thing you wish you could go back in time and change about Indian history.

partitioned for 5000 years. We live together. And it was an imperial conspiracy. The British were hell bent on dividing the country wide in rules. Yeah. And they wanted to divide India into into at least four Two parts that there should be a country for the good cause there should be a country, for the maharajahs, there should be a country for the mentally it's, you know, they had this grand plan, one for Muslims. And the question is at that time, the Indian leadership, Muslims, Christians, Dalits, Congress leaders, all of them should have said that you came as colonizers. Now you go back, and we will resize it. If we have to partition the country, we will do it. But we don't need you. Right, if we can undo that, and I am very hopeful one that that will happen. Why I don't know. But one day, I suppose 100 100 crore people from both sides of the border, say that we will oppose another war

Michelle D'costa  1:01:10

in Ireland, so that history doesn't repeat itself.

Bhaskar Roy  1:01:13

Yes, that India and Pakistan will not hide as another word the FIPS 147 There was that war over Kashmir, then 71, then 65 Sorry, 65, then 71, then Cargill, so we must not fight there again. Again, you know, they can decide that we will not cooperate. So what do the government do? So, I'm in both governments.

Michelle D'costa  1:01:50

Yeah, no, that's a really nice thoughts. I mean, nobody, nobody should ever ever participate in the

Bhaskar Roy  1:01:56

young people of India and will oppose if our countries go to war.

Michelle D'costa  1:02:05

Right. Okay, so, so one place in Calcutta that you absolutely love, and you would love to visit anytime.

Bhaskar Roy  1:02:13

That is a quality street coffee house..

Michelle D'costa  1:02:22

Right. Okay, one book that you love to read any time fiction. It could be a novel, it could be a short story collection. And well,

Bhaskar Roy  1:02:32

there are many, but I would say 100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Yes. A great book, which greatly inspired me. Awesome. It can be Sansone lovers, also. Another great book.

Michelle D'costa  1:02:56

Great. Okay, so the last question, what's next?

Bhaskar Roy  1:03:02

Well, it is already decided. The later this year. machetes publishing my new novel. Border process.

Michelle D'costa  1:03:15

Oh, wow. Yeah, exciting. It's

Bhaskar Roy  1:03:19

an outcome of very long research. So I would request you to look for it. And it's written in the migration literature. Jarred.

Michelle D'costa  1:03:34

Oh, wow. That's my favorite genre, actually,

Bhaskar Roy  1:03:37

that, you know, I was at JLF that Jibu literary faced. So someone said that humans are migratory by nature. So migration will always take place. So I saw this new effluence of market reform the India, this new middle class, the prosperity, the, you know, car brands changing every six months, and all that through the eyes of the migrant workers, those who come to work in your city? Oh,

Michelle D'costa  1:04:21

wow. I think I think that's one book. I'll definitely pick up sir. Because I generally so I've lived most of my life outside India. So I consider myself a migrant. Yeah. And I consciously seek out migraine narrative. So this is something I'm really excited about. And I loved having this conversation.

So thank you for that. So I had a really good time talking to you.

Bhaskar Roy  1:06:49

Thank you. Thanks for having me.